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Project
04-25-2005, 03:49 PM
Many of us were annoyed last year when Microsoft intentionally broke
raw sockets on Windows XP, while leaving the feature enabled in
Windows 2003. MS is well known for maintaining the upgrade treadmill
by dubious means such gratuitous file format incompatibilities, but
this is a new low. People pay $299.99 for WinXP Pro with working raw
sockets, then MS cripples their systems and demands $1019 (WS2003
retail price) to return the functionality. Of course Microsoft claims
this change is necessary for security. That is funny, since all of
the other major platforms Nmap supports (e.g. Mac OS X, Linux, *BSD)
offer raw sockets and yet they haven't become the wasp nest of
spambots, worms, and spyware that infest so many Windows boxes.

This takes us back to 1996, when MS released Windows NT 4.0
Workstation with a limit of 10 incoming connections per 10 minutes[1].
They (falsely) claimed this limit was due to substantial technical
differences between Workstation and Server, and wasn't just a way to
force an $800 upgrade. But at least that was a new product -- MS
didn't proactively break existing, working web servers. Soon hackers
discovered that the "substantial technical differences" were just a
registry key setting. MS backed down and removed the limitation.

Well, they haven't backed down this time! I know that some of you
have been avoiding SP2 to keep your system fully functional. MS made
a blocking tool available to Enterprises, but they overrode it on
April 12 and forced the upgrade through Automatic Update anyway[2].
And now they have quietly snuck the raw sockets restriction in with
their latest critical security patch (MS05-019). The loophole that
allowed users to defeat the limitation by stopping the ICS service has
also been closed by MS05-019. I have appended an informative
NTBugtraq post by Robin Keir on this topic. Pick your poison: Install
MS05-019 and cripple your OS, or ignore the hotfix and remain
vulnerable to remote code execution and DoS.

Nmap has not supported dialup nor any other non-ethernet connections
on Windows since this silly limitation was added. The new TCP
connection limit also substantially degrades connect() scan. Nmap
users should avoid thinking that all platforms are supported equally.
If you have any choice, run Nmap on Linux, Mac OS X, Open/FreeBSD, or
Solaris rather than Windows. Nmap will run faster and more reliably.
Or you can try convincing MS to fix their TCP stack. Good luck with
that.

Rand mode off,
-Fyodor

Fyodor is the author of the now (in)famous nmap network mapping tool.

This article proves Microsoft intentionally manipulates the functions of software it ships AFTER THE FACT, forcing consumers into an upgrade.

Make your choice guys, but the sooner you break your MS addiction, the better, for yourself, software, and the world. :kiss:

Gummer
04-25-2005, 04:04 PM
I'm almost ready to delve into OS X just for this very reason. I've just about had all the M$ security issues I can take for one lifetime!

Project
04-25-2005, 04:18 PM
I urge you to... OSX is great, although you are still dealing with a big company who makes their products proprietary to some degree, and therefore you will never truly know what is going on (although you may not want to know what is going on, at least you should have a right to be able to...)

Jeen0
04-25-2005, 04:20 PM
I remember hearing about that from Leo, I believe. (Leo Laporte) He's a big Mac and 'nix man too. So Project, then you don't think Longhorn will be any better? Or just another disk of holes and breeches..? I guess XP started out of the gate as being a secure OS..I think they are all vulnerable to the right hacker - Whatever you have you better cover your but with all the security you can muster.

Burt, I've heard (http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2005/01/18/PearPC.html) they have OSX running on a PC.. that would be great. Cheap HW - secure OS. Best of both worlds..

I have never even pointed a mouse on a mac so I know nothing about them or their OS, just what I've heard and that it is much more secure than any windows...You never run as root, right?

Project
04-25-2005, 04:29 PM
Well, in my honest opinion, a computer is only as secure as it's user is knowledgeable about security. There is no secure OS, it does not exist (although http://www.governmentsecurity.org gets close).

Longhorn will be just as much, if not more of a disaster than XP is and always was IMO. How long after XP was released was the first 'critical security patch'? Not too long, as SP1 came out about 6 months after the official release of XP.

Yes, you can run OSX through an emulator, just as you can run windows or linux (think VMWare http://www.vmware.com/). This is what the page you referred to is doing. It works, but is slow and does not allow you full access to your system, as everything is running emulated. It is not a solution alas to buying proprietary Mac hardware.

Of course there is a free alternative that works faster on PC architecture than does Windows... need I say more?

Gummer
04-25-2005, 04:32 PM
I remember hearing about that from Leo, I believe. (Leo Laporte) He's a big Mac and 'nix man too. So Project, then you don't think Longhorn will be any better? Or just another disk of holes and breeches..? I guess XP started out of the gate as being a secure OS..I think they are all vulnerable to the right hacker - Whatever you have you better cover your but with all the security you can muster.

Burt, I've heard (http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2005/01/18/PearPC.html) they have OSX running on a PC.. that would be great. Cheap HW - secure OS. Best of both worlds..

I have never even pointed a mouse on a mac so I know nothing about them or their OS, just what I've heard and that it is much more secure than any windows...You never run as root, right?

At one of my jobs we have some G5's running video editing software. Apple makes a good product but it is a bit more expensive. In the long run it may not be however...

Jeen0
04-25-2005, 04:54 PM
Naw, I know an emulator isn't a real option. WINE has many problems too. I couldn't find the piece I was looking for. I think they had OSX on a PC something..may come to me later..

I guess my main weakness is I like convenience and ease of use. Linux is closing those gaps all the time.. But then, when half the windoze users switch to a 'nix that will become the new major hacker/security risk.

Where's my abacus...can't hack that! :D

Project
04-25-2005, 05:03 PM
I like convenience and ease of use
You really should give ubuntu a spin... although no graphical installer at the moment, it is by far the easiest linux I have used (something like a 4 step install)... gives you a Gnome desktop by default that is supposed to be a no-brainer to use (ie: Web Browser instead of Mozilla Firefox, Word Processor instead of OpenOffice 1.14 Writer). Has a control panel just like windows, but has so many cool gadgets and stuff. It is based on Debian, so you have a nice rock solid OS with access to all the Debian goodies (debain has the largest package database - something like 200 000 programs all free, all available under Add/Remove Programs in the control panel, and all sorted into nice categories with a description of what the package does). Try in in VMWare and see what you think... I do believe they have a live-CD as well.

On a side note I have found one of the best ways to convince non-techies to try linux is just let them see some default screensavers :) My screen is melting, that is so cool!!

Gummer
05-03-2005, 11:00 AM
Project - do you need a program like Spybot if your using the Safari browser on a Mac?

Alger
05-03-2005, 11:08 AM
Are you having trouble with the macs at work Gummy? Keep me posted. :shocked:

Gummer
05-03-2005, 11:26 AM
I'm just getting a couple configured for some additional work stations. OS-X has a built in firewall but I need to learn more about anti-spy programs.

Project
05-03-2005, 11:51 AM
I'm just getting a couple configured for some additional work stations. OS-X has a built in firewall but I need to learn more about anti-spy programs.
phewf good luck :)

You will need to learn the basics of BSD which OSX is built on AFAIK.

Alger
05-03-2005, 11:53 AM
Let me know when you have that done Gummy. My browser just quit again. First time today though. :D

Jeen0
05-03-2005, 11:53 AM
...but I need to learn more about anti-spy programs. -Burt
Me too, I guess. I didn't think spyware was much of an issue with Macs..?

This guy disagrees:

Macs More Vulnerable, Spyware A Danger (http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=159907956)
March 29, 2005


Enterprises using Apple's Macintosh shouldn't smirk too much over their perceived immunity to the kind of security problems that plague Windows users, a research analyst said.

By Gregg Keizer
TechWeb News


I guess the bugs are everywhere. I wonder what problems linux users have, they're a 'nix too..

http://img116.exs.cx/img116/934/z0tdntknw.gif

Gummer
05-03-2005, 12:38 PM
Yeah Jeen0 I'd read something similar about the vulnerabilities of Mac's. I just wasn't sure how serious a threat it had become considering Mac's relative low penetration in the general population. We have four G5's in our inventory and so far we haven't worried much about spyware.

Jeen0
05-03-2005, 12:59 PM
I think Safari is pretty secure, from what I've heard..and we know that Firefox is so far anyway but it's popularity is bound to attract the attention of the spyware b00bs..didn't I hear they have prosecuted one of those guys lately..? His punishment should be decided on by an internet poll. http://img99.exs.cx/img99/1117/vudu9bf.gif

:D

Project
05-03-2005, 11:25 PM
nothing is secure for long... there will always be holes discovered, you must keep on top of updates. Luckily pretty much everything tells you when an update is available now...