05-15-2005, 03:17 PM
Sonora UFO flap!
Ongoing UFO Wave over Sonora, California videotaped! ... CLICK ON THE PICTURE TO
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UFO Videos from Sonora, California, May, 2004, UFO Casebook Files
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Cylinder UFO Captured On Video In Sonora, CA
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Re: Sonora California 04-31-04 - Stanford
... 14:55:47 -0700 >>>Subject: Sonora California 04-31-04 >>>HBCC UFO Note: I
received some video footage which was taken in >>>the Sonora, California area. ...
05-15-2005, 03:27 PM
the videos can be seen at:
Re: Sonora California 04-31-04 - Stanford
From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 20:01:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:47:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Sonora California 04-31-04 - Stanford
>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 14:59:18 +0100
>Subject: Sonora California 04-31-04
>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:41:20 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>Subject: Re: Sonora California 04-31-04
>>>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:55:47 -0700
>>>Subject: Sonora California 04-31-04
>>>HBCC UFO Note: I received some video footage which was taken in
>>>the Sonora, California area. The footage is nothing short of
>>>amazing. I will be posting it to my site as soon as the internet
>>>clip is ready. The video footage will show how dangerous these
>>>unknown objects can be, as the object filmed in the footage I
>>>have is "clearly" maneuvering near a passenger Jet Airliner. No
>>>bird, no balloon as a few out there would have us believing this
>>>object is. This object can dart around the sky at an incredible
>>>rate of speed coming to a dead stop. It makes "U" turns, moves
>>>diagonally. This footage is a must see and will be available as
>>>soon as the internet clip ready. So stayed tuned for an amazing
>>>20 seconds of UFO footage.
>>I examined a 10 second clip of this video of an aircraft with
>>contrail that you sent to Jeff Rense. The unknown object comes
>>into view and remains for less than this time. Based on this
>>footage alone, how did you come to the conclusion that this
>>unknown object was clearly maneuvering dangerously close to the
>>jet airliner? Since we do not know the size of this unknown
>>object to reasonably estimate its distance from the observer(s),
>>we cannot rule out a bird or balloon as the correct explanation.
>>Considering the erratic flight of this unknown object, the
>>changes in its reflective(?) brightness and the fact that it is
>>closer to the observer(s) than the jet airliner (this object is
>>clearly visible at one point when it passes in front of the jet
>>contrail), I would say that a bird is the most likely answer to
>>this latest video of UFO.
>>Unless we see the entire video (not just a few seconds) and look
>>for similar unknown objects or birds flying in other parts of
>>the sky, we will never for sure. So we either do nothing more
>>and pass this case on to posterity as a UFO or do a little more
>>critical and objective evaluation which may reasonably identify
>>it as an IFO such as a bird.
>>If we are to convince others, including our governments, of the
>>reality and seriousness of UFOs and that they were not something
>>that flew through our skies in the past, we must present much
>>better evidence than this. UFO videos and pictures such as these
>>are what some people, such as UFO skeptics/debunkers, would like
>>to promote and see more of so to discredit ufology and dampen
>>further interest in this field. By investigating all UFO cases
>>but showcasing the truly unknown ones, we take precautions from
>>unwittingly helping our critics!
>While I acknowledge it's not the most exciting bit of UFO
>footage ever seen, and what evidence there is is hardly
>conclusive, I rather feel you too have somewhat rushed your
>conclusions. Do you know of a bird, even with a tail wind up
>it's tush, that can fly faster than an airliner, even at take
>off speed? And even allowing for the athletic abilities of our
>feathered friends, I've never seen a bird veer off vertically
>quite like that one did.
>And while airplanes hitting birds have caused countless
>fatalities and crashes over the years, I've never known a bird
>approach a plane in the inquisitive manner that one did, not
>with all the engine noise 'n all. Of course, he might have been
>looking to get laid and mistook the plane for a feathered
>colleague but I don't think even birds are that stupid.
As Nick clearly pointed out, there is nothing in the video that
suggests his hypothesized bird is at the distance of the
aircraft. Why not read and digest what Nick said rather that
shoot at a straw man. (Personally, I suspect, judging from the
type of motion recorded, that the 'object' is a relatively
nearby butterfly or some flitting insect.)
>"I've never known a bird approach a plane in the inquisitive
>manner that one did, not with all the engine noise 'n all."?
Clearly, Nick did not propose that the hypothesized bird was
anywhere near the aircraft. I can assure you that Nick knows
that birds cannot fly at the altitude at which an aircraft
leaves that substantial a condensation wake. He was suggesting a
bird much nearer to the camera. LOL! Show me any bird that can
approach an aircraft flying at 10,000 meters or so. The air is
much too thin up there for avian survival, and the temperature
far too cold.
As to the "inquisitive manner" you seem to insist upon,
referring to what you interpret as a reactive behavior by
whatever produced the anomalous image, that is a highly
speculative interpretation, with nothing in the film to confirm
it. It did not appear to 'pace' the aircraft at any point, as
one would think it might do if it were truly "inquisitive". And,
as Nick pointed out, we have no index of object distance and,
hence, even size.
To try to get anything much out of a video that poor is, IMO,
tantamount to trying to read tea leaves. In short, one gets
about as much out of it as one imagines into it.
Your comments, aside, I confess to being puzzled at how Nick
>>we cannot rule out a bird or balloon as the correct
If there were winds erratic enough to make any balloon do that
kind of maneuvering in such a short time, some most
extraordinary clear-sky turbulence would necessarily have been
If you want to argue against Nick's bird hypothesis, Stuart,
deal with the relatively nearby bird to which he referred. The
shape changes and reflectance changes of the 'object' across
time do not match any model I can conceive of that would be
produced by a bird doing those maneuvers. It would have to be a
very fast bird, too.
Something like a small white butterfly fluttering by, too close
to be completely in focus? Yes. A small butterfly can easily do
that much maneuvering in the time involved, and the maneuvering
often looks very much like that.
Probably the greatest value in this video is that what people
perceive in it can give us caution about how much people's minds
can do to warp perceptions not made from high enough above their
field of dreams to distinguish dreams from reality.
Please don't take that personally, Stuart. I mean it in the most
"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery
05-15-2005, 03:32 PM
05-15-2005, 03:38 PM
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