Dec 18-19: Art Bell with Whitley/Anne and Dr. Charles Till

[BadBoy]

Sat 12-18-2004:
Nuclear physicist Dr. Charles Till, who spent nearly 20 years at a National Laboratory working on a new kind of nuclear reactor, will discuss what went wrong with the technology.

[cosmicswirl]

Anne is supposed to be talk about her NDE tonight. You can read about it here:

http://www.unknowncountry.com/diary/

..."The guide turned out to be my beloved cat Coe."....

[cosmicswirl]

Maybe I'm blind, but I no longer see Whit and Anne listed on the coast site as doing hour one.

edit: Oops maybe it was never there ...they are listed as being on on the their site.

[Alpha]

Hi BB, cosmicswirl, Explorers and guests.....great to see you all, for this Saturday night with Art!! :)

[Alpha]

Art's off Christmas weekend....hope they play some golden oldies.

[cosmicswirl]

Hi Alpha :)

[cosmicswirl]

webcam: Art's cat Yeti.

[Alpha]

Here's Yetti....looks like he's the Bell favorite feline.

[Alpha]

Showtime cancelling Dead Like Me....Art does not sound happy.

Anyone here watch that series? I've burned the 1st season but have only watched a few episodes.....different and quite good....always like Mandy Patinken ( sp).

[Captain Kundalini]

I can't wait to hear Anne.
Oh, about that cat. That's what I call AMAZING!
"Dead Like Me"? Cancelled? I hope not. I love that show, too.

[cosmicswirl]

I have seen a few episodes. It just wasn't for me. Odyssey 5 was best ever show that Showtime ever cancelled. It was written by Manny Coto who now writes for the newest Star Trek series.

[BadBoy]

Maybe I'm blind, but I no longer see Whit and Anne listed on the coast site as doing hour one.

edit: Oops maybe it was never there ...they are listed as being on on the their site.

It was never there!

Did Art say he was hosting Friday night 12/31 for part 2 of the annual prediction show?

[cosmicswirl]

He did say he was going to carry us into the new year.

[Alpha]

I think that's what he said, BB....not 100% sure though...

[Alpha]

Anne sounds good.

Yes, I also beleive in the power of prayer, deep concentration or whatever one calls their dialogue with the cosmos.

[Captain Kundalini]

It's groovy that Shamen have something in commen. :D

[Alpha]

Anne's beloved Coe was a Siamese.

I've been blessed to have 3 outstanding Siamese cats in my lifetime...they are unique and remarkable felines. I have no doubt they'll be waiting for me at the end of that white light and I can't wait to see them again.....then again, don't want to end up in that machine o ;) n the moon.....

[Alpha]

HI CK....good to see you....for a while I thought I was talking to myself. :)

[Alpha]

Really dig your new av!

[Captain Kundalini]

Anne's beloved Coe was a Siamese.

I've been blessed to have 3 outstanding Siamese cats in my lifetime...they are unique and remarkable felines. I have no doubt they'll be waiting for me at the end of that white light and I can't wait to see them again.....then again, don't want to end up in that machine o ;) n the moon.....

I grew up with Siamese cats as pets and I agree with you whole heartedly.
I love this song.

[cosmicswirl]

No cats here....allergic. :o

[Captain Kundalini]

Our first siamese, Nancycat. (http://www.captkundalini.com/Graphics/nancycat.jpg) Circa: 1968.

[cosmicswirl]

Since Art went back into ANOTHER commercial break...

Anyone order GN's cd?

[Alpha]

Our first siamese, Nancycat. (http://www.captkundalini.com/Graphics/nancycat.jpg) Circa: 1968.

She's beautiful CK....looks like ready to pounce mode.

Was she a seal or chocolate point...mine were all lilac points, one blue point. I'm catless at the moment...one Golden Retreiver here only, but am thinking about adopting a new siamese.

[Alpha]

No CS, I haven't and likely won't.

What's supposed to be on it?...I haven't been listening to George much lately.

[Alpha]

Oh, Anne's NDE....

People with shopping bags, tell her she can go on, if she wants to....talking to her son on the cell phone telling him that Coe is with her.

[Moonwolf]

A George CD? No, won't be getting that, George is boring and irratating enough during the week. Why would anyone want to buy a CD of him? :eek:

[Alpha]

Don't know if I like the sound of "the world of the dead". :eek: ...doesn't sound too warm and fuzzy to me.

[Alpha]

A George CD? No, won't be getting that, George is boring and irratating enough during the week. Why would anyone want to buy a CD of him? :eek:

Hi Moonwolf....good to see you! Agree.... :D

[Moonwolf]

Hey, Alpha, how are ya? Good to see you too!

[cosmicswirl]

No CS, I haven't and likely won't.

What's supposed to be on it?...I haven't been listening to George much lately.

I was thinking of getting it for the music.


COAST TO COAST AM WITH GEORGE NOORY RELEASES DOUBLE CD FOR THE HOLIDAYS

George Noory, host of Coast to Coast AM, has released a double CD titled, "George Noory presents After Dark"--2 1/2 hours of music played on his radio show, some of his favorite interactions with callers and guests, and his reading of classic, scary short stories.

On the first CD, the songs were personally selected by America's #1 nighttime radio talk show host and include such legendary and iconic songs as "Cat's in the Cradle," "Son of a Preacher Man," "Hello, It's Me," and Wilson Pickett's "In the Midnight Hour." Other songs include, Jim Croce's "Operator," Gary Wright's "Dream Weaver," Yes' "I've Seen All Good People" and INXS' "Beautiful Girl."

There are also 7 bonus tracks from callers and guests, such as "The Ouija Board" and "The Boy from Another Time," plus his live interview with the space station astronauts. A ghost hunting-story and a report on the Bermuda Triangle give real life insights into the "other side."

The second CD includes George Noory reading Edgar Allan Poe's "The Tell-Tale Heart," thumping out the narrator's guilt and obsession with being discovered; "The Monkey's Paw," the ultimate tale of irony; Ambrose Bierce's "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge," and H.G. Wells' "The Story of the Inexperienced Ghost."

[Alpha]

Hey, Alpha, how are ya? Good to see you too!

It's always good when Art's on. I think he's really pumped about cats making it to the other side. Kind of turns my crank too... ;)

[Captain Kundalini]

She's beautiful CK....looks like ready to pounce mode.

Was she a seal or chocolate point...mine were all lilac points, one blue point. I'm catless at the moment...one Golden Retreiver here only, but am thinking about adopting a new siamese.

seal point.

[cosmicswirl]

I guess cat lovers and George don't mix. ;)

[Captain Kundalini]

It's always good when Art's on. I think he's really pumped about cats making it to the other side. Kind of turns my crank too... ;)

"Turns your crank?" What does that mean?

[Alpha]

turns my crank = gets one excited, pumped up, makes one happy ....in the conventional sense, of course... ;)

[Alpha]

I guess cat lovers and George don't mix. ;)

:D :D ....not sure about that, but...

Thanks for the detail on the CD, cosmicswirl......I'll pass for sure.

Ya know, you can get much of that music from any P2P site and burn it with software like Total Recorder. **edit**correction...Total Recorder records audio, but you can burn MP3s with almost any good free software like CD Creator, Roxio products, Nero etc**end edit**

[Moonwolf]

Alpha, wish I could hear Art tonight, power failure, and my laptop only has a dialup, so getting a stream is out. So i figured this is the next best thing.

[maryals]

Now I'm on Internet Explorer and everything's working like it should :confused:

Ann sounds wonderful, like she never was ill :D

Yup, the power of prayer!

[cosmicswirl]

Alpha, wish I could hear Art tonight, power failure, and my laptop only has a dialup, so getting a stream is out. So i figured this is the next best thing.

That sux moonwolf...as long as these commercial breaks are, you probably have time to run out and get some batteries before the break ends.

[Moonwolf]

Cosmic, as long as the commericals are getting, I could handcraft a windmill and generator! :D

[cosmicswirl]

You're right about that :-D

[Alpha]

Alpha, wish I could hear Art tonight, power failure, and my laptop only has a dialup, so getting a stream is out. So i figured this is the next best thing.

Situations like this call for the C Crane Freeplay plus.....kidding aside...scrounge around for some old battery radio....maybe you can pull Art in over a.m.....as CS says...news time now...time to run to 7/11 or any convenience store for some fresh batteries or a cheap little radio.

Sorry that you're missing the show.

[Moonwolf]

The show is getting to remind me of some Sunday newspapers: After you discard 128 pounds of ads, self serving guppage and dripping nonsense, there in't a whole lot left except the hernia from carrying all that to the dumpster.

[Alpha]

Since it's news time, I have a question.

I can't get any attachments to load...I go to manage attachments....the window pops up...I choose a file....wait for it to upload...close window...then submit my post, but no pic shows.

I've had this problem since yesterday ( was working fine before)....any ideas what's wrong or is anyone elses having the same problem.

[cosmicswirl]

I uploaded a pic a bit ago and did not experience any probs.

[Alpha]

Ahhh....one of my favorites of Art's bumper music!!.........

[cosmicswirl]

Has JC ever called in with a prediction? It's about time he called in again.

[Moonwolf]

Took a close look at the Freeplay that a friend bought for TEOLAWKI (The End Of Life As We Know IT) aka Y2k. She raved about it. Went to demonstrate and the crank would about half a turn, it made a very expensive sounding BOOOOINGGGGGG! sound and died on the spot.

Needless to say, it was indeed built like a tank, a Russian tank, built on Monday after a three day weekend with free vodka for all. :eek:

[cosmicswirl]

Ahhh....one of my favorites of Art's bumper music!!.........

Who is that Alpha...Golden Earring?

[Alpha]

Peak Oil.....hmmm....truth or trash? Some claim the latter.

[Alpha]

Who is that Alpha...Golden Earring?

I'm not sure CS....after all the years I've listened to that song, you think I would know...is the title "Twilight Zone".?....I'm sure CK knows and will let us know.

[maryals]

My first cat was a rescue in Las Vegas.....I wasn't allergic then. Oh my GAWSH but Art's orange/yellow/white tiger stripe cat looks just like my Sally, or one of her kittens all grown up. Shortly after rescuing Sally, I rescued a large but not fat cat with very long hair; he was mostly black with that white "V" on his face and he had the most remarkable emerald green eyes I had ever seen!

It broke my heart as the allergy developed, and I just had to find new homes for Sally and Frodo.

:::sigh::: how many times can a heart be broken, I wonder, before it's broken beyond repair?

Ahhhh, now to a happier subject; Nuclear Energy and the Deadly waste from it :eek:

[cosmicswirl]

Charles Till link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/reaction/interviews/till.html

OMG no way not ANOTHER commerical!!!! This is absolutely ridiculous.

LOL! a cc crane commercial at that!

[Alpha]

Took a close look at the Freeplay that a friend bought for TEOLAWKI (The End Of Life As We Know IT) aka Y2k. She raved about it. Went to demonstrate and the crank would about half a turn, it made a very expensive sounding BOOOOINGGGGGG! sound and died on the spot.

Needless to say, it was indeed built like a tank, a Russian tank, built on Monday after a three day weekend with free vodka for all. :eek:

....or like a LADA? :D

Love your sense of humour, Moonwolf.... :)

[cosmicswirl]

I'm not sure CS....after all the years I've listened to that song, you think I would know...is the title "Twilight Zone".?....I'm sure CK knows and will let us know.


I'm pretty sure its Golden Earring.

[Moonwolf]

Peak oil? Most probably trash.

I remember back in the 1970s there were folks, smart folks not nuts, kooks or cranks, saying that by the mid 1980s there would be widespread famine and economic collapse because of overpopulation and resource depletion, and that by 2000 civilization would have essentially collapsed to a pretechnological level.

Look around you. Do you see a pretechnological civilization? I sure don't. (aside from a drunk driver hitting a power pole and cutting my juice.)

These predictions were seriously debated in the scientific literature. They were dead, flat wrong because they failed to account for advances in technology.

Peak oil will be a similar thing, in my opinion.

[cosmicswirl]

Congressional Record: Nov. 6, 1997 (Senate)
Page S11890-S11891

Retirement of Dr. Charles Till

http://www.anl.gov/Media_Center/Argonne_News/news97/crtill.html

[Alpha]

CANDU: The Canadian Nuclear Reactor (http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-75-104/science_technology/candu/)

[Moonwolf]

Never worked on a LADA, but did work on a SKODA once. I don't think a dedicated technology buff like me would have liked living there.

But there is all that free vodka........ :p

[True Wireless]

Howdy everyone!

Yes Alpha, Golden Earring did Twilight Zone.

[Alpha]

Hi TW!! Great to see you tonight. :)

[cosmicswirl]

Hi True Wireless ;)

[Alpha]

Anyone else finding this topic really dry?

[cosmicswirl]

Anyone else finding this topic really dry?

Yes

[maryals]

The one thing the Russians know how to make is good Vodka, real potato vodka! YUM nothing is smoooooooooooooooooooother than potato vodka :D

[True Wireless]

Good to be here, thanks Alpha :)

Dr. Till sounds a little nervous to me, or a little wavering in his voice for a few minutes.

[Moonwolf]

Not me, Alpha, i can't find it at all! :cool:
But I bet that isn't what you meant, was it? :D

[True Wireless]

Hi Cosmicswirl and Maryals, Moonwolf.

Yes it is a bit dry. Art will get it going...

[Alpha]

Agreed TW, Dr Till does sound a bit nervous...a Michio Kaku he's definately not.

Art will really need to spice up this show, I think....topic is interesting, however I feel like I'm back a very boring university lecture...that I'm just about to leave and maybe read the text book later.

I'd give Dr Till another 1/2 hour and then go to open lines.

[True Wireless]

Now that woman who went into Chernoboyl on motorcycle was interesting. Some think that there was more to that story.

[maryals]

My guess is the Guest sounds so quiet because he is scared poopless over the things he knows about Nuclear Power and Uranium and all that radioactive crap.

This subject isn't dry, well, that's just my opinion :drink:

[Moonwolf]

Hey, TW, how are you tonight?

[cosmicswirl]

Chernobyl Disaster's Health Impact Remains Cloudy

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0426_040426_chernobyl.html#main

[Alpha]

Not me, Alpha, i can't find it at all! :cool:
But I bet that isn't what you meant, was it? :D

:D ...I think your statement is more accurate than my original..... :D

[cosmicswirl]

Kiddofspeed - GHOST TOWN - Chernobyl Pictures -
Elena's Motorcyle Ride through Chernobyl

http://www.kiddofspeed.com/default.htm

[True Wireless]

My guess is the Guest sounds so quiet because he is scared poopless over the things he knows about Nuclear Power and Uranium and all that radioactive crap.

This subject isn't dry, well, that's just my opinion :drink:

Agreed scared is what that sounded like. I bet he is nervous and being listened to.

Just once I would like to hear the truth come...like nuclear power is dangerous as hell and we have safe alternatives..yada yada...LOL Now that would wetten things up some :p

[Moonwolf]

TW, there was less to that story than met the eye.

It was, sadly, a hoax. The pictures which were supposed to have been taken around the city and reactor site were taken from a coffee table book published in Germany. Sorry.

It is really too bad, I am an avid motorcycleist and would have LOVED to make the same trip. But bikes are not allowed in the area at all.

Sigh. :mad:

[BadBoy]

Has JC ever called in with a prediction?

Nah, to JC predictions are "the devil's play"

[True Wireless]

Good Moonwolf, thanks. Cool name I like it.

[True Wireless]

Moonwolf, that is quite a revelation. Underground disinfo eh?

[True Wireless]

Nah, to JC predictions are "the devil's play"

and we all know the devil plays in a boiling pot of sewage!

[Alpha]

So, looks like Art's "thoughtfully" sitting on the fence, on the issue of nuclear power.

Somewhat surprising, considering he is energy self sufficient and he totally understands the environmental and danger issues, the alternatives...

[Moonwolf]

The dangers of nuclear power are GREATLY exagerated. Outside of the former USSR (which uses a reactor design rejected as too dangerous by everyone but the Soviets) can you name me ONE person killed or injured by a commercial nuclear power plant? Just one? I bet you can't.

The fear comes from the abysmal level of science education and a media more interested in selling ad time than facts.

A case can be made that if we were to convert all power generation in the US to nuclear there would be fewer deaths and injuries, meaning NOT going nuclear is dangerous!

[Alpha]

and we all know the devil plays in a boiling pot of sewage!

:D ...and he always comes out unscathed, nevertheless....

[True Wireless]

Point taken Moonwolf.

[True Wireless]

:D ...and he always comes out unscathed, nevertheless....

Can you imagine JC calling in to ask Dr. Till a question when Art opens the lines? LOL I couldn't resist the scenario...

[Moonwolf]

Moonwolf, that is quite a revelation. Underground disinfo eh?

I would have to say no, no disinfo, just someone who wanted some publicity.

Which saddened me as I thought it was quite a piece and a heckuva ride! I have a european friend looking for the book, but it is long out of print, and darned few were printed, darn it!

BTW, the LA Times broke the story about the fake and it was picked up by the wire services and if I remember right, Art mentioned it once.

Still too darned bad, I was impressed!

[Alpha]

Reactor meltdowns, obviously are not the only danger.

The pollution to the environment for miles around a nuclear reactor, the documented cases of increase in various cancers, leukemias for populations living in close proximity to reactors, the mutations animal life, i.e. deformed fish with high radioactiy feeding the streams and lakes....not to mention the huge issue of nuclear waste disposal....only to mention a few....

[True Wireless]

His take on perfecting technology is a bit different from Tesla's ability to do it right the first time, and save generations of time from the way he is pointing.

[Moonwolf]

Alpha, how can a negative void coefficient commercial reactor melt down? I have asked this question of many folks who were anti nuke and never, not once have they been able to answer it.

Cancer is like any other disease, it can be found in clusters simply due to statistical artifacts.

I had a friend once who showed there was a higher incidence of cancer near bookshops selling Al Gore's EARTH IN THE BALANCE book. Of course he had to throw out a LOT of data to make the fit, but hey, it was a good enough paper to get published had he wanted to.

Waste isn't a huge problem. You just recycle the used fuel elements and the waste is reduced to a very small volume. The Japanese do this, as do the French, and the French, well, it must not be terribly hard or they couldn't do it at all. Engineers cal this "Closing the fuel cycle." We can't do it here because Jimmy Carter made it illegal.

[cosmicswirl]

Sorry, I'm still stuck on Chernobyl...googling away. Did I hear Art wonder aloud earlier about the long Chernobyl would be uninhabitable?

"All who entered the 30 kilometer `dead zone' are either dead
or dying from radiation sickness. The sarcophagus built to
contain further radioactive contamination is crumbling. And
the breakup of the U.S.S.R. has not improved the situation.
The fragile economy cannot afford the expense that a
massive cleanup would cost, and the emerging nations all
require power to survive, power supplied by other Chernobyl-
like reactors.

The area surrounding Chernobyl will be uninhabitable for
25,000 years."

http://www.bullfrogfilms.com/catalog/188.html

[Alpha]

Positive void coefficient reactors (http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf31.htm) still exist and are in operation, MW.

With that said, I'm not and engineer nor up on my reading on nuclear engineering and or physics, therefore certainly am not able to discuss anything more specific.

[True Wireless]

Waste isn't a huge problem. You just recycle the used fuel elements and the waste is reduced to a very small volume. The Japanese do this, as do the French, and the French, well, it must not be terribly hard or they couldn't do it at all. Engineers cal this "Closing the fuel cycle." We can't do it here because Jimmy Carter made it illegal.

Interesting, what caused Jimmy Carter to do that, wasn't he educated in nuclear power?

[BadBoy]

To me the killer reason to not use nuclear power is the impossible task of storing without leakage nuclear waste for hundreds of thousands of years - its ridiculous to think our civilization will last that long! We don't even have all the knowledge from human civilization from 5000 years ago (ancient Egyptians). I can imagine after civilization enters another dark age at some point (say after an asteroid strike) - technology information is lost again, and humans find ancient stored radioactive containers with no way to know what they contain and attempt to open them!

Another valid reason is they can be perfect terrorist targets.

[cosmicswirl]

Alpha, I was hoping that your open lines prediction would come to fruition. Guess not. :( .

It is way past my bedtime, I'll be listening under the covers. Goodnight all :)

[Alpha]

Well it's 3:00 a.m. here with a busy morning ahead, so time for the horizontal for me.

Good night everyone....enjoy the show and I'll catch up with you all later. :)

[Moonwolf]

Yes, Alpha, they do exist. The Soviets REALLY liked them because they were able to produce more weapons grade material.

A positive void coefficient reactor puts out more power the hotter it gets, so it is easy to have one get away from you and have a terrible problem like Chernobyl. They have nerver been approved for use in commercial reactors outside the USSR because they were just too dangerous, which Chernobyl proved beyond any doubt.

Outside the USSR only negative void reactors are allowed in commerical service. With them the hotter the reactor gets, the slower the rate of fission. They are harder to start and keep going, but if everything goes to slime they are not liable to kill you.

Live and learn, or you don't live long.

[Moonwolf]

BTW, Alpha, that is a great site! Thanks for the link!

[True Wireless]

Goodnight Alpha and Cosmicswirl

Badboy you make good points

[Moonwolf]

TW, Carter was schooled, he was not educated, a BIG difference!

And the waste problem is a non issue. The longer lived the radioisotope, the LESS radioactive it is. This means it is easier to handle, less dangerous and less prone to terrorist use. It is the short lived radioisotopes you worry about, and with modern methods of vitrification they can be safely stored for the few decades they are hazardous. In addition with vitrification the terrorists would need a pretty sophisticated processing plant and LOTS of fairly easy to track chemicals like hydroflouric acid to get the bad stuff out. Why do that when C4, Semtex and the like are far easier to get at?

[maryals]

Good link CosMic Swirl. TY :D
Moonwolf, PLEEEEEZE do not insult our combined Intelligence with that old "data can be manipulated" counter to the statistics, the FACTS surrounding the dangers of radioactive materials; cancers, stillbirths, and so on.

I am not a nuclear physicist. Perhaps you are? Or a friend or relative? Or you work at a Nuke Power Plant? If you can swear on your mother's eyes that a Nuke Power Plant in the U.S. will do a "Chernoyble" or a "Three Mile Island" when "Pigs Fly", then I will join you in being in favor of it.

Within days after Mt Saint Helens Blew, Scientists could go there. Folks walk along the edges of the Volcanoes in Hawaii. These Volcanoes are more devastating than any Nuke, yet, anyone can go right up to the devastation and not worry about radiation making them sick.
In fact, vegetation and small insects and then small animals and then birds and larger animals soon return, after a devestating volcano or earthquake or Tsunami or any other NATURAL disaster you care to name.

No my friend, IMNSHO, Moonwolf, you are the one who is brainwashed, who needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

I am not going to argue with you on this, I have said what I need to say.

[BadBoy]

I'd suggest Moonwolf could try living next to Chernobyl to test his "theories"

[Moonwolf]

I spent 15 years working in the nuke business, includng reactor operations, chemical seperation and waste handling.

And yes, pigs will fly and there will be pork in the treetops before any non Soviet design commercial powerplant will do what Chernobyl did. Sorry, but you need to know the appropriate math and physics to understand the arguments, and since you say you have nothing else to say, I won't bore you with details. :)

Yes, radiation in high doses can and demonstrably does lead to cancer, birth defects and death. But the dose is the important factor, not whether or not you are exposed. We are always exposed to radiation, from the sun, minerals in the Earth and from deep in space in the form of cosmic rays.

Brainwashed? I don't think so. I just understand the math and physics perhaps a tiny bit better than the talking heads in the media and politicians trying to frighten people in order to retain their power.

You are free to disagree with me, I encourage it, but please, include your math so I can get the full impact of your arguments.

[Moonwolf]

Why would I want to live next to a dangerous piece of junk like Chernobyl or any reactor built to Soviet era specs?

Commercial reactors are VERY different from Chernobyl everywhere else but the former USSR. Apparently you were absent the day basic reactor safety was taught? :p

[BadBoy]

YES! Art's guest just confirmed the USA's nuclear waste has to be kept safe for hundreds of thousands of years! Thats impossible!

[Captain Kundalini]

Well folks, I'm off to the sheets and pillows. Good night.

[Moonwolf]

Impossible? Show your math. I am sure that an appropriate hearing with the appropriate people could be arranged so you could enlighten the world with your insights. You do have the math, don't you? :p

[IWstudio]

Nite CK...remember santa doesn't show til early hours on the 25th;) no need to go to bed early this night :D :drink:

[maryals]

So, MoonWolf and me will just have to agree to disagree.
I can only pray that your Math is correct. Mebbe, MW my friend, you should visit the "Nicola Tesla" thread I started, to get an idea of why I am skeptical (not completly, but to some degree) of "known scientific facts", "physics proves", "the Math cannot be denied" and so on ;)

[BadBoy]

Impossible? Show your math. I am sure that an appropriate hearing with the appropriate people could be arranged so you could enlighten the world with your insights. You do have the math, don't you? :p


Art just brought up my points including a future asteriod strike. I've seen no evidence of any human technological civilization remaining intact for even 5000 years without loss of such knowledge, much less 100,000 years! Where is your proof that its possible?

Moonwolf's harping for proof/math sound eerlingly familiar, reminds me of someone!

[Moonwolf]

Maryals, with all respect, I find that the less someone knows about math and physics, the les they "believe." Scientists and engineers trained in the use of the appropriate math and physics do not "believe" in the traditional sense, they do however know that nature, at least on a small enough scale and for sufficiently well defined problems is highly predictable. Pickled cucumbers do not, for example, explode like nuclear weapons. The person not trained believes this is so, but the scientist or engineer can tell you why it is so. An important and very real distiction.

I will be happy to look in on your thread, thanks for the pointer.

Oh yes, agreeing to disagree is perfectly OK with me. That is how civilized people disagree.

[maryals]

dadgummit, I was so busy posting and reading that I did not hear the Guest explain just what "IFR"? is......then I started listening and what I heard sounded like this thing is pretty safe. What ever that is ?
OK Moonwolf, please tell us what we missed cuz we wuz so busy arguing :o
Thanks :D

Meanwhile, we do have to deal with the waste we have now
:mad:

[Moonwolf]

You admit you do not have any concrete proof for your claims? Most enlightened of you, Grasshopper. It is good to know your limitations. :D

Look up the term "specific activity" in regard to radioactive decay. I will help you with the unfamiliar terms and new words.

If an asteroid hits a nuclear waste dump, you have a LOT bigger problems than a bit of waste, you have an event that by itself has caused the extiction of 90+% of ann terrestrial life forms in the past.

But you are worried that a radioisotope with a multy tens of thousand year half life is a gonna get ya!

Seriously, get Physics for Dummies and study up a bit! ;)

[True Wireless]

explain just what "IFR"? is....

International Female Radioactivity

Insidiously False Reporting

I'm For Rollo

Iguana's Frisky Romp

:p :p :p

[Moonwolf]

Sorry, Maryals, I am still without power so can't hear the show.

Don't know what IFR means without more context.

Yeah, we need to do something with the waste we have, the vast majority of it from weapons production, and a sad amount of it in liquid forms, much of it still in tanks buried in the ground.

No one says nuclear waste is not a material you don't want around, it isn't. But there does exisyt technology that can make it a lot smaller problem. What is preventing that is politics, not the engineering. The engineering is pretty easy, if you have a solution to the political problem you are a LOT smarter than I am, I stick to simple problems! :D

[maryals]

Now now BadBoy, it is not logical to see YoYo's under every bed and inside every radio :eek:
I come from a whole big family of Engineers and Scientists. IMNSHO Moonwolf does sound, to me, more like a scientist than your infamous Nemesis.
Yo(u) (know) (wh)Y(o) would, at this point, be name calling and switching subjects. :rolleyes:

I think you miss your ol' Nemesis. I know how you feel. There are times I would like to hear from Snorrithor :eek: just for a bite on the cheek, for old times' sake :eek:

[True Wireless]

He skirted Tesla, another example of wasted time. I'm sorry but the obvious schism is disgusting.

[BadBoy]

You admit you do not have any concrete proof for your claims? Most enlightened of you, Grasshopper. It is good to know your limitations. :D

Look up the term "specific activity" in regard to radioactive decay. I will help you with the unfamiliar terms and new words.

If an asteroid hits a nuclear waste dump, you have a LOT bigger problems than a bit of waste, you have an event that by itself has caused the extiction of 90+% of ann terrestrial life forms in the past.

But you are worried that a radioisotope with a multy tens of thousand year half life is a gonna get ya!

Seriously, get Physics for Dummies and study up a bit! ;)

It was the guest's claim not mine - he is a nuclear scientist, so I believe his words! I wasn't saying the asteroid would hit the nuclear waste dump, just cause any civilization to get stuck back in the stone age with no advanced technological knowledge. Then humans then could come across a nuclear waste dump and not know what it was and could mess around with the containers. I think the history shows that a big asteroid impact is likely in a hundred thousand years.

[BadBoy]

I am still without power so can't hear the show.


Ah that explains it - you aren't hearing the guests important claims based on his extensive scientific knowledge!

[maryals]

DurnBurnRatzebFratzedbergers! :mad: Nicola Tesla IS the greatest mind of all time, but the genuine NUT CASES have glommed on to him, and ruined his credibility :mad:

"IFR"? obviously I heard it wrong :confused:

MoonWolf you sure are right on about Politics and Politicians screwing things up. However, IW is a P&G Free Zone! :-D

If you are feeling brave, put on hip waders, extra strong snake boots, shoulder length heavy chemical resistant gloves, and the best motorcycle helmit money can buy, and wonder into the Politics and Government Section of Fantastic Forum :eek:

[Moonwolf]

If you believe the guest, why are you arguing, Grasshopper? :cool:

Look, the isotopes with long half lives are LESS radioactive per unit than those with a short half life. Specific activity is the quantity that takes this into account.

A large asteroid impact, large enough to release large quantities of material from proposed commercial waste dumps is pretty rare.

IF you close the fuel cycle, something that is not done in the US for poilitical reasons the amount of residual waste can be calculated easily.

If you close the fuel cycle and store the remaining waste, and if ALL electrical production in the US were nuclear, the residual waste that you would have to store would occupy the area of a tennis court to a depth of about six feet. Thats it. And you are worried that an asteroid will hit that small area and spread waste? Either you have trouble with the statistics, or you don't understand asteroid impact frequency or kinetic energy very well. I will be happy to help you through the rough spots.

[Moonwolf]

Maryals, did not mean to wander into politics. My apologies.

:(

Never was a member at the other place you mentioned, but after looking at the back messages I think your equipment list to wade in there may be a little short! :p

I shall retire to the corner to be one with my humiliation. :o

[True Wireless]

Tesla is ignored because he was going to provide FREE energy for all...read electricity. Nuclear power would not even be a topic of discussion and we as mankind would have moved right along.

Now we are facing peak oil and aging nuclear power plants, and I discover from Moonwolf that we do not practice the best methods of dealing with it post use (close whatever you said..I am not knowledgable on nuclear)...

Seems silly to discuss something like this when all of it was not necessary to begin with. Money/economics...gee wonder what we could have if we had gone the other way..Tesla's way?

[Moonwolf]

Darn! Looks like I shall retire to be one with my humiliation sonner than i thought.

The power is not back on yet, and the laptop is about out of juice, so I gotta run.

Night all, thanks for the wonderful evening!

[maryals]

He skirted Tesla, another example of wasted time. I'm sorry but the obvious schism is disgusting.

You are so right on! It is unfathom....unfathoni...unfath.....oh heck I just cannot believe that Tesla is NOT required study for all, ALL Science Majors. :mad:

It's up to you and me TrueWireless, to keep that Thread alive and make the information available!

[BadBoy]

If you believe the guest, why are you arguing, Grasshopper? :cool:

Look, the isotopes with long half lives are LESS radioactive per unit than those with a short half life. Specific activity is the quantity that takes this into account.

A large asteroid impact, large enough to release large quantities of material from proposed commercial waste dumps is pretty rare.

IF you close the fuel cycle, something that is not done in the US for poilitical reasons the amount of residual waste can be calculated easily.

If you close the fuel cycle and store the remaining waste, and if ALL electrical production in the US were nuclear, the residual waste that you would have to store would occupy the area of a tennis court to a depth of about six feet. Thats it. And you are worried that an asteroid will hit that small area and spread waste? Either you have trouble with the statistics, or you don't understand asteroid impact frequency or kinetic energy very well. I will be happy to help you through the rough spots.

Well Master Po, all that is moot since the USA is not doing that - so we have to deal with the massive amount of existing radioactive waste according to the guest for hundreds of thousands of years! That won't magically go away. Again I didn't say the asteroid would have to hit a nuclear waste dump, merely wipe out technological civilization as had happened in the past. I highly doubt our civilization's knowledge will survive intact for tens of thousands of years to help our distant descendants from keeping the waste intact, and thats assuming the containers don't leak in that incredible period of time.

[True Wireless]

Well, here we are again on the verge of opportunity to grow and do it right. Shall we relieve ourselves as short-sighted birds and do it in our own nest (Earth), or shall we have intelligence prevail and start cleaning up the mess created by greed?

Maryals...onward! :saber: :p

[True Wireless]

Badboy great point...and that is what I mean by short-sighted. Truth is the idiots who are PTB have too many "ego-centered" pressures, and then so do the scientists.

Having to store nuclear waste at all is imo the same as slipping on a pair of diapers and NEVER changing them.

Show of hands now..how many think that's a good idea? Isn't the same as the situation for the Earth and future of man that we face now...what to do with the severely soiled old diaper put on by those who lived before us.

[True Wireless]

Goodnight Maryals :) cya later

[BadBoy]

What massive security is going to protect the nuclear waste for a hundred thousand years? Terrorists could steal it and use it to poison large areas - stick it in water supplies and so on. You can't assume everyone is good and wanting to protect mankind!

[maryals]

I DID hear it correctly! "IFR" seems to be some kind of process, used in the Nuclear Power Plant. If MoonWolf really is the Nuclear Expert he claims to be, why would he not have knowledge of "IFR"?

Yes, BB, I think your point is being missed (I really do not want to talk about MW now that he is not here). We have tons of radioactive crap, that will be very dangerous crap for countless generations. Do you remember, some years ago, there was some Senator or was it a Congressman, who wanted to "create" a "religion" or "myth" regarding the areas where the waste is now, to teach future generations that these areas are "Taboo" or "UnHoly" or something, that would somehow insure that future Generations would keep away?!

[BadBoy]

Anyone remember during one of Dr. Michio Kaku's recent appearances where he talked about this issue? He is a top physicist and is totally against nuclear power - I would say he is a top expert on this subject!

[IWstudio]

The length of these commercial breaks are getting frustratingly ridiculous.. I remember Art hated how many commercials there were when he first left and he returned only if they were toned down. Now it's worse than ever!

[maryals]

The length of these commercial breaks are getting frustratingly ridiculous.. I remember Art hated how many commercials there were when he first left and he returned only if they were toned down. Now it's worse than ever!

Too true :mad:

[maryals]

Anyone remember during one of Dr. Michio Kaku's recent appearances where he talked about this issue? He is a top physicist and is totally against nuclear power - I would say he is a top expert on this subject!

Very good point! :cool:

[Maverick]

Last nights program with Dr. Till put me to sleep. Not because of Art, for he tried very hard to get Dr. Till to answer some very basic questions. His answers were ultra-convservative imho. Maybe Dr. Till knows too much and was afraid of a slip up??

[True Wireless]

Last nights program with Dr. Till put me to sleep. Not because of Art, for he tried very hard to get Dr. Till to answer some very basic questions. His answers were ultra-convservative imho. Maybe Dr. Till knows too much and was afraid of a slip up??

No question imo Maverick, I agree