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Delphine
05-18-2007, 12:55 PM
This reinforced some of the things I've learned on C2C, but I found the altar especially interesting.

Wiccans Keep the Faith With a Religion Under Wraps

New York Times
May 16, 2007
DUMFRIES, Va. — Above the woman’s fireplace hangs her wedding picture, taken in a Lutheran church years ago. Below it, on the mantelpiece, is a small Wiccan altar: two candles, a tiny cauldron, four stones to represent the elements of nature and a small amethyst representing her spirit.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f382/AnnabelleL/C2C/Wicca.jpg
A pagan family’s altar. Wicca, a form of paganism, celebrates the divine in nature. But its symbols and practices elicit suspicion from outsiders.

The wedding portrait is always there. But whenever someone comes to visit, the woman sweeps the altar away. Raised Southern Baptist in Virginia and now a stay-at-home mother of two in this Washington suburb, she has told almost no one — not her relatives, her friends or the other mothers in her children’s playgroups — that she is Wiccan.

Among the most popular religions to have flowered since the 1960s, Wicca — a form of paganism — still faces a struggle for acceptance, experts on the religion and Wiccans themselves said. In April, Wiccans won an important victory when the Department of Veterans Affairs settled a lawsuit and agreed to add the Wiccan pentacle to a list of approved religious symbols that it will engrave on veterans’ headstones.

But Wicca in the civilian world is largely a religion in hiding. Wiccans fear losing their friends and jobs if people find out about their faith.

“I would love to be able to say ‘Accept us for who we are,’ but I can’t, mainly because of my kids,” said the suburban mother, who agreed to talk only on the condition of anonymity. “Children can be cruel, and their parents can be even more cruel, and I don’t want my kids picked on for the choice their mommy made.”

She worries that because most people know little about Wicca, they will assume she worships Satan. She fears that her family and friends will abandon her and that the community will ostracize her.

David Steinmetz, professor of the history of Christianity at Duke Divinity School, said, “Wiccans have so many things stacked against them, from what the Bible says about the practice of magic to the history in this country of witch trials, that the image of them adds up to something so contrary to the consensus about genuine religion that still shapes American society.”

Wiccans worship the divine in nature. Some practice it privately in their homes, and others worship with large congregations. Most people do not grow up Wiccan but come to it from another religion.

“It’s a very open religion,” said Helen A. Berger, a sociology professor at West Chester University of Pennsylvania. “Each person can do what they want, and they don’t have to belong to a group. They take things from a number of different sources, like Eastern religions, Celtic practices. You are the ultimate authority of your own experience.”

But its symbols and practices elicit suspicion from outsiders, Wiccans and religion scholars say.

Many Wiccans practice some form of magic or witchcraft, which they say is a way of affecting one’s destiny, but which many outsiders see as evil. The Wiccan pentacle, a five-pointed star inside a circle, is often confused with symbols of Satanism. (The five points of the star represent the elements of nature — earth, air, fire and water — and the spirit, within the eternal circle of life.)

It is unclear how many Wiccans and other pagans there are. The 2001 American Religious Identification Survey by the City University of New York found that Wicca was the country’s fastest-growing religion, with 134,000 adherents, compared with 8,000 in 1990. The actual number may be greater, Ms. Berger said. Some people may have been unwilling to identify themselves as pagan or Wiccan for the survey. Others combine paganism with other religions.

Wiccans face less backlash now than in the past. The Internet provides information about Wicca, and the popularity of the Harry Potter novels has made magic seem a force for good, scholars and Wiccans say.

David and Jeanet Ewing, coordinators of two pagan groups in the Washington area, estimate that at least 1,000 Wiccans and other pagans live in Northern Virginia, Maryland and the District of Columbia. At least half actively hide their faith from their relatives, Ms. Ewing said. Many also hide their faith from their employers, Mr. Ewing said.

One such person is a 58-year-old former Roman Catholic who has been an auditor for 30 years in what he calls “one of the most buttoned-down departments in one of the most sacrosanct agencies” of the federal government.

“I put on this Joe Taxpayer suit, and it’s like living two lives,” he said. “A minority would have a problem with me, but it would be a big problem. They would assume we are doing weird things, illegal, immoral things, at all hours. They wouldn’t want to really know what we do, but they would go with their presuppositions instead.”

The auditor said that by “coming out of the broom closet,” he risked ostracism at work and perhaps being pushed into early retirement, which would affect his pension. “I don’t even want to contemplate it,” he said.

A New York marketing executive finds the city so secular that being passionate about religion is often met with a smirk, and it would be worse if people knew he was Wiccan, he said. “In my personal and private life, I like to be taken seriously,” he said. “Pagans are associated with the ’70s and hippies and counterculture. New York is a Type A city, and it’s all about getting ahead, and the kooky ones don’t get ahead.”

Members of other religions, including Jews and Catholics, have sometimes been forced to mask their faith in the past because of religious bias, Professor Steinmetz said. But it is rare, he added, for people to keep their religion from parents and grandparents, as many Wiccans do.

The Virginia mother has not told her mother or grandmother that she is a Wiccan. “I have a deep-seated fear that they will say, ‘I can’t be a part of this, you’re raising your kids as evil,’ ” she said.

She attends classes about Wicca on Friday nights, and she has yet to caution her older child, a preschooler, not to tell anyone about them.

“My son says, ‘Yeah, Mommy’s going to witch school,’ ” she said. “I’m just waiting for the day he says that in front of a teacher.”

Mcnowhere
05-18-2007, 01:38 PM
Great article Delphine! My boss is a Wiccan. I am the only one in our office who seems to know this but then she is aware of my fringe interests too, so that probably makes her feel comfortable.

I have looked Wica up in the net but the info still seems to be a bit vague. Mind you that was awhile ago. This has prompted me to go have another looksee!

Nighthawk
05-31-2007, 04:03 AM
I count myself fortunate to have a number of Wiccan friends. There is so much room for individuality in regard to this religion I wonder if anything you will find online will be anything but vague. Getting "my Wiccans" to agree on anything is rather like trying to herd cats! A lot of the folks I know follow what they term individual paths which means they pretty much mix and match various practices. Good luck in your explorations! Take care, NH

Dera
05-31-2007, 05:39 AM
Delphs, I have been interested in learning about Wiccans too, and read this same article that you posted. I think I became curious because of Evelyn Paglini and also because someone said that Ramona Bell was one. I also did a little surfing on the subject but didn't find much info. I even checked to see if there was a group in my area. There isn't, but there are about 4-5 people who posted their user names and are looking for a chapter or whatever they call them. Oh! Would that be "Coven?"? :laughing: (What do I know besides nothing?) A couple of the names sounded like men which would be good as I don't need another sewing circle type thing.

If I had found a group, I doubt that I would have done anything with it. Just curious (and a little chicken). http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y255/CCCaw/chicken01.gif

Alpha
05-31-2007, 07:30 AM
Great article and topic Delphine :biggthump

IMO Wicca is just a re-emergence and relabeling of ancient pagan practices stemming from Europe, the Celts and before.

These practices still exist in Europe and often are practiced in tandem or independently with other religious practices....I believe Ramona Bell was a North American example of just that.

Sadly organized religion frowns on the reverence to nature, the elements which IMHO is not incongruent with the concept of a Creator.

I'd love to hear from any Pagans or Wiccans on this forum. My ancestry of the Latvian culture is/was heavily based on the elements, the reverence for the celestial bodies and never found this in conflict with the official prevalent "Christianity". People who practice and believe this are called the "Vec Ticigi" which translates to the Old Believers and the customs, holidays, songs, folklore and rituals still encorporate the old in harmony. Much of the symbology goes back to symbols found in ancient geometry...no coincidence.

Wicca

Mcnowhere
05-31-2007, 03:43 PM
I wonder if Wiccan's keep the details of their faith secret for some reason? Kind of reminds me of the Free Mason's! I can't seem to get to the bottom of it at all! How would one know if one wanted to become a Wiccan when one can't find out the nitty gritty of it? (hypothetical question here, I dislike organized religion of any denomination). Even when I speak in person with them, they are still vague. What's the point of everybody in one faith having differing beliefs?

Alpha
06-12-2007, 08:40 AM
I wonder if Wiccan's keep the details of their faith secret for some reason? Kind of reminds me of the Free Mason's! I can't seem to get to the bottom of it at all! How would one know if one wanted to become a Wiccan when one can't find out the nitty gritty of it? (hypothetical question here, I dislike organized religion of any denomination). Even when I speak in person with them, they are still vague. What's the point of everybody in one faith having differing beliefs?

I wonder if they keep it under the vest because of societal misconception, stereotyping and/or misunderstanding, fearing that if they disclose they will face personal ramifications if they do.

Perhaps you can ask your friend and they can give us some insight. I'd like to know more about this as well....both about Wicca and why they are reluctant to talk about it.

Mcnowhere
06-12-2007, 11:31 AM
I wonder if they keep it under the vest because of societal misconception, stereotyping and/or misunderstanding, fearing that if they disclose they will face personal ramifications if they do.

Perhaps you can ask your friend and they can give us some insight. I'd like to know more about this as well....both about Wicca and why they are reluctant to talk about it.
I have talked to her and am no further ahead. But in just knowing her as a person, she seems to be a very spiritual person.

Hadriana
07-01-2007, 04:23 AM
I'm pagan and have been so for 21 years now.
I've a ton of friends that are wiccan, and we get along fine.

Why are pagans so quiet? Well, a lot of it is where one lives. I belonged for a fairly long time to a very active coven in Atlanta - which everyone KNEW about and no one said anything in the 70's, 80's, then BOOM early 90's when the community suddenly turned on us.

It got really, really ugly. People picketing, spitting, condemning, legal battles, it got so ugly. Lady Sintana rehabilitated birds, but suddenly her kindness for animals turned into the press reporting animal sacrifices of birds. I mean, it was ugly.

Most people don't have any clue the fervor with which some people will persecute you if #1 You are pagan and #2 They think you practice magick.

Pagans hear it loud and clear, so in general, we learn to be quiet.

Hadriana
07-01-2007, 04:46 AM
There's no great secret - except that wicca sometimes attracts some really strange people that I don't want to be around. lol Wicca is way too often NOT child friendly, IMO. That's not the religion though, that's just the wackos that use it as an excuse. I really think a lot of people need the moral framework that more conventional religion provides.

So do be careful. IF you meet up with any group, and your wrong radar goes off, get away as fast as you can.

Wicca isn't a revealed religion, it is a mystic one - and often the best place to meet wiccans is at the local UU church. At least around here, all the UU churches tend to have large pagan populations.

So that is why - and how - there's so much difference in what people believe and why it is ok. In general, there's a strong believe in the supernatural, of at least the dual aspect of divinity - (some wiccans are monotheistic at heart, but express their divinity as a God and Goddess, MOST revere the Goddess aspect - some of us are truely polytheistic - most but not all wiccans do practice some sort of divination, and magick - with a wish to align oneself with nature.

Some will say that all wiccans follow the Wiccan Rede - but Sybil Leek certainly didn't, and I don't either. I don't personally in any way feel I really 'have' to. I don't think Evelyn Pagilini does EITHER.

There also seems to be some sort of rule that wicca has to be sold. lol I'm joking. No one should have to 'buy' into any religion. So don't unless you just feel compelled to help support someone else's religious habit.

teresius
08-30-2007, 10:45 PM
a while back, i posted some pics of a very curious sidewalk-type structure in a creek. a hiking buddy of mine told me that if i continue on up the same creek, i'd come to a circle of stones (an obviously artificial circle). i reported that i was going to try to find it and see what was being done with/in it on the summer solstice, but absolutely could not find it as the pine trees hereabouts have suffered a terrible blight, fallen all over the place and made the paths impassable and often unrecognizable. i'm still trying to recon the area and am slowly clearing paths myself. i want to make a blind in the woods and see if i can watch them this winter solstice, unobserved. i've met a few of the local 'wiccans,' and they all seem to be weird, misled kids who don't fit in anywhere nor have any idea about the religion they espouse (one even claimed that the pentacle he wore was a pentagram for worshipping the devil, "see, here's his horns, here's his ears..."). i'm not saying that they're all like that, as i've known quite a few wiccans that were the bees' knees. i really want to see what the local group uses this circle for.

Hadriana
08-31-2007, 02:59 PM
Oh well, there's a lot of kids that don't know shzt from apple butter. There's the element that just wants to shock - and then there are also sincere seekers that are left to flounder.

There's some serious disagreement too, about how much they should be taught as children - but witchvox has a special section just for teens.


Don't you think it is wrong to spy on people like that? I do.

I'd be upset if I saw someone spying on our circle here. We value our privacy.

At Dragon Hills, it is pretty secluded, the circles there are pretty safe, but you go into one knowing that there are people you don't know there.

A personal private circle is a very different matter. What you might find may or may not represent witchcraft by the majority of the community.

Also, some groups don't observe the solstices ON the days or at the same times - so you might show up and no one be there anyway.

If you came to spy on one of MY circles, I've no doubt my dog would try to eat you.

http://www.flapagan.org/ Explore that site - there's some video footage of some circles there as I recall.
Or go - check out a gathering where you are WELCOME. Here's a video archive: http://www.flapagan.org/videoarchive.htm (Lots of poi, and that is very common at the gatherings and circles around here.)

but also - why wait until the winter solstice? You think they don't celebrate Mabon?

List of festivals (mainly) public gatherings - http://www.faeriefaith.net/festival.list.html#2007

Alpha
08-31-2007, 07:16 PM
There's no great secret - except that wicca sometimes attracts some really strange people that I don't want to be around. lol Wicca is way too often NOT child friendly, IMO. That's not the religion though, that's just the wackos that use it as an excuse. I really think a lot of people need the moral framework that more conventional religion provides.

So do be careful. IF you meet up with any group, and your wrong radar goes off, get away as fast as you can.

Wicca isn't a revealed religion, it is a mystic one - and often the best place to meet wiccans is at the local UU church. At least around here, all the UU churches tend to have large pagan populations.

So that is why - and how - there's so much difference in what people believe and why it is ok. In general, there's a strong believe in the supernatural, of at least the dual aspect of divinity - (some wiccans are monotheistic at heart, but express their divinity as a God and Goddess, MOST revere the Goddess aspect - some of us are truely polytheistic - most but not all wiccans do practice some sort of divination, and magick - with a wish to align oneself with nature.

Some will say that all wiccans follow the Wiccan Rede - but Sybil Leek certainly didn't, and I don't either. I don't personally in any way feel I really 'have' to. I don't think Evelyn Pagilini does EITHER.

There also seems to be some sort of rule that wicca has to be sold. lol I'm joking. No one should have to 'buy' into any religion. So don't unless you just feel compelled to help support someone else's religious habit.

Thanks Hadriana :)

What I really want to know , among many other things, is what Wicca, the "craft" and "paganism" both have in common and what are the differentiators.

Why does one have to have a "coven" or a group?

Why does this need a label, other than to understand in a factoring equation to group folks into certain subsets?

In early times, this was just what folks did cyclically and alone, passed down from their forefathers...in tandem with the elements, nature and the cosmos.

Should that be shared...yes, of course IMHO.

Yet, polarity is divisive...unity in what should be is beyond devine...why can't we seem to do that regardless or our beliefs?

It seems or perhaps it seems to me, that ancient practice has taken some from conventional groups, relative to ego, support and rivalry. :sad: Kinda defeats the impetous and the originating force IMM....

Perhaps I'm wrong...I'd really like to better understand this...:)

Hadriana
08-31-2007, 11:58 PM
Thanks Hadriana :)

What I really want to know , among many other things, is what Wicca, the "craft" and "paganism" both have in common and what are the differentiators.

Why does one have to have a "coven" or a group?

Why does this need a label, other than to understand in a factoring equation to group folks into certain subsets?

In early times, this was just what folks did cyclically and alone, passed down from their forefathers...in tandem with the elements, nature and the cosmos.

Should that be shared...yes, of course IMHO.

Yet, polarity is divisive...unity in what should be is beyond devine...why can't we seem to do that regardless or our beliefs?

It seems or perhaps it seems to me, that ancient practice has taken some from conventional groups, relative to ego, support and rivalry. :sad: Kinda defeats the impetous and the originating force IMM....

Perhaps I'm wrong...I'd really like to better understand this...:)
1. A wiccan is always a pagan. A pagan isn't always a wiccan. Wiccans also have demoninations. Wicca is a fairly new religion based on ancient traditions, but today, most people credit Gardner with the establishment of wicca. Wiccans - in general - have some authority structure in their groups, and today, most will follow the rede.

A pagan may or may not be a wiccan - or may have started a wiccan but doesn't acknowlege the structure or authority that is common in wicca. Some are reconstructionists, some do not practice magic. There are other branches of paganism - astrutu or druidism, for instance.

All these will have in common 1. A profound respect or worship of nature as divine. 2. Polytheism - a god and a goddess at the very minimum 3. A belief in reincarnation and karma 4. nonparticipation in proselytizaton and USUALLY 5. a practice of magic.

The pagan religious are not revealed religions, so you are not going to have unity. THe unity that has been decided upon is that every path is valid. THat leaves room for a lot of paths.

Why do we label things? To give a name and a label to something is to give it power. Right now, wiccans in particular are starting to flex. People are tired of persecution. Period.


Should it be shared? It is, it is just not pushed. The information is everywhere. I will say though, that one must suffer for it. If I say here, read this - it won't be valued....my experience is that reading is a start, but the process of true transformation within the craft takes time and a lot of practice. Being with others in ritual - I've found - will hasten this process. Covens are a great way to grow - some people miss the growth opportunities they give because they don't like the occasional strife, the backstabbing, ect., that can come up from time to time. But a group is a great way to learn your own limits and your own power. Some people need to learn that.

Solitaries can accomplish a great deal too - and that is what some people need, and what some magic needs.

You meet it where you are, but when it is time to grow, you have to let yourself. I called myself wiccan for many years...but then something happened - now - I will not follow any rede, I value my irreverance more than ever, and on a day to day basis, I'm not going to submit to the authority of any religious teacher except for myself and my teachers from beyond this world.

teresius
09-04-2007, 12:01 AM
Oh well, there's a lot of kids that don't know shzt from apple butter. There's the element that just wants to shock - and then there are also sincere seekers that are left to flounder.

There's some serious disagreement too, about how much they should be taught as children - but witchvox has a special section just for teens.


Don't you think it is wrong to spy on people like that? I do.

I'd be upset if I saw someone spying on our circle here. We value our privacy.

At Dragon Hills, it is pretty secluded, the circles there are pretty safe, but you go into one knowing that there are people you don't know there.

A personal private circle is a very different matter. What you might find may or may not represent witchcraft by the majority of the community.

Also, some groups don't observe the solstices ON the days or at the same times - so you might show up and no one be there anyway.

If you came to spy on one of MY circles, I've no doubt my dog would try to eat you.



actually, what i believe is that if someone put a circle of stones on national park land, very close to a well-travelled path, it's probably the poseur kids that i mentioned in that first post. i'm VERY INTERESTED in what they might be doing there and trying to pass off as magic. if they seem to be sincere, i can always leave quietly, trekking over the ridge instead of down the path. i'm no voyeur.