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Dera
12-19-2007, 03:29 AM
What is it I don't seem to understand? How many dumb-dumbs can there possibly be who sign contacts for stuff they can't afford so that the government has to intervene? I know that I can't afford a half-million dollar home, and I have only average intelligence. Maybe I am smarter than I thought? Maybe our schools are failing more terribly than anyone thought when it comes to reality, economics and basic math? :rant:




U.S. Fed proposes rules to protect would-be homeowners
By Edmund L. Andrews and David Stout

Tuesday, December 18, 2007
WASHINGTON: The Federal Reserve moved Tuesday to impose tough new restrictions meant to curb unfair and deceptive home-lending practices and prevent a recurrence of the meltdown in subprime mortgages this year.

By a 5-to-0 vote, the Fed approved a plan that would tighten provisions meant to protect borrowers and apply them to a far larger share of home loans - whether from banks, mortgage companies or other lenders - than under current regulations.

The proposed rules underscore the more assertive role the Fed is now prepared to take in regulating lending, a big shift from the central bank's approach in the past. In general, the rules are meant to deter unscrupulous lenders from persuading people that they can afford loans that ought to be out of their reach. By extension, the rules are also intended to keep would-be buyers from deceiving themselves about the debt burdens they can shoulder.

"Our goal is to promote responsible mortgage lending, for the benefit of individual consumers and the economy," said the Fed chairman, Ben Bernanke.

"We want consumers to make decisions about home mortgage options confidently, with assurances that unscrupulous home mortgage practices will not be tolerated."

The plan includes provisions that would require more extensive disclosures, restrict advertising and make it harder to lend to borrowers with little or no documentation and a questionable ability to repay.

It would also allow borrowers, in some circumstances, to sue lenders who violated the rules.

The Fed acted under provisions of the Truth in Lending Act and the Home Ownership Equity Protection Act of 1994. In the past, it had been quite cautious about using its authority to clamp down, and the rules were last revised in 2001.

Details of the proposed rules, which could take effect next year after a period for public comment and possible revisions, can be read on the Fed's Web site, www.federalreserve.gov.

In "four key protections," the Fed listed these:

Creditors would be barred from lending without documenting a borrower's ability to repay the loan.

Creditors would have to verify a borrower's income and assets.

Prepayment penalties would be restricted.

Creditors would have to establish escrow accounts for taxes and insurance.

"Unfair and deceptive practices have harmed consumers and the integrity of the home mortgage market," said a Fed governor, Randall Kroszner. "We have listened closely and developed a response to abuses that we believe will facilitate responsible lending."

The action puts the Fed a step ahead of the Congress, which is considering its own steps to tighten restrictions on the home loan industry. A bill put forward by Representative Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat and chairman of the Financial Services Committee of the House of Representatives, would expose mortgage brokers and lenders to legal liability if borrowers are unable to repay.

The Fed did not go as far as proposals by some consumer groups, which sought, for example, an outright ban on prepayment penalties.

What the Fed has been hearing in recent months is a complex blend of personal hardship and dire news for the country as a whole, as waves of foreclosures have swamped the housing market and threatened to mire the economy in a recession.

The housing boom of the first several years seems almost as distant as the boom in technology stocks, but economists have warned that the fallout from the housing slump could be much worse than that from the dot-com bubble.

Many homebuyers whose little slice of the American dream has turned into a nightmare were undone by "teaser rates" dangled in front of "balloon mortgages." When the tempting original rates were supplanted by much higher rates built into the loan, many homeowners could not make the monthly payments.

Those personal misfortunes - whether the result of individual misjudgment, excessive optimism, shady lending or all of those - have mushroomed into a national problem.

The situation is further complicated by the subsequent packaging and reselling of subprime mortgages in ways that are so arcane that even some bankers acknowledge they are befuddled by them.

VOguy
12-19-2007, 07:13 AM
Better than the solution one economist floated several years ago for starting "debter's Prisons" for people who go so deep into debt that they have no ability to pay. One of his thoughts was that individuals who file Chapter 7 or 13 should have to serve TIME in jail for, as he said, "sins".

Judee
12-19-2007, 08:07 AM
What is it I don't seem to understand? How many dumb-dumbs can there possibly be who sign contacts for stuff they can't afford so that the government has to intervene? I know that I can't afford a half-million dollar home, and I have only average intelligence. Maybe I am smarter than I thought? Maybe our schools are failing more terribly than anyone thought when it comes to reality, economics and basic math? :rant:





You understand very well Dera. This whole pile of Sh!t was planned, and is part of the down fall of America. Amazing how well it has worked isn't it? And yes, the 'dumbing down' in the schools is also part of it. Oh... and isn't it amazing how the dumbing down of the voter age 'sheeple' has also worked?

Alpha
12-19-2007, 08:31 AM
You understand very well Dera. This whole pile of Sh!t was planned, and is part of the down fall of America. Amazing how well it has worked isn't it? And yes, the 'dumbing down' in the schools is also part of it. Oh... and isn't it amazing how the dumbing down of the voter age 'sheeple' has also worked?

I totally agree with you Judee.

I have always been amazed at the US lending practices.

Here in Canada there has never been a "pay interest only" mortgage...in fact income has alway been verified and in the majority of cases, one has to anti up about 25% down toward the purchase price of a home before they are able to get financing...makes it that much more difficult to walk away when you have $50K plus in something up front.

Also, we have never ever had 0% credit cards here...unheard of.

Our bankruptcy laws have never allowed folks to keep their home, their cars, their furniture...if one screws up financially here...everything will be sold to pay their debts...and I mean everything...not to mention NO credit for 7 years!!!

I've always wondered why this is so different between our two countries....a plan it seems as you so eloquently write :angryfire

Captain Beyond
12-19-2007, 10:27 AM
Look for even more trouble ahead. You can't bring a giant economy like the US economy to it's knees overnight. They are not finished by a long shot. :poke:

Divinorumus
12-19-2007, 11:33 AM
... Our bankruptcy laws have never allowed folks to keep their home, their cars, their furniture...if one screws up financially here...everything will be sold to pay their debts...and I mean everything...not to mention NO credit for 7 years!!! I've always wondered why this is so different between our two countries....a plan it seems as you so eloquently write :angryfire

Well, that's because we (the USA people) are the elites of the world. Our definition of poor is your definition of rich, as it should be! (snickering) The rest of the world works for us, the superior elite of the planet! China makes things for us and OPEC nations empower us and Canada makes us beer and we give them all worthless dollars and treasury notes in exchange for all that booty. And they have to play along, or we'll blast them off the planet. Heck, us elites could print huge stacks of funny money and buy Canada many times over without making a dent in our pile of IOUs! :scratchch Now, make us more beer, Canadians, or we'll replace you all with Chinese or Mexicans or Russians. Be good slaves and we'll let you continue to pay for the priviledge of living on your own planet (ha), with interest of course. Oh, and to pay tax too, you privileged slaves of ours. In the USA, we get what we want ~ always! Too bad for you, but that's your fault for where you were born. (ha)


You can't bring a giant economy like the US economy to it's knees overnight.
Ah, a challenge! Wanna bet? (sorry, no currency bets, please) I'm surprised Wal-Mart is still accepting dollars.

VOguy
12-19-2007, 07:28 PM
Maybe it's because we love "thing" and money so bad, we're willing to take high risks. And maybe it's because our legislature has allowed predator lending policies. And maybe it's because we're like the obese man at the all you can eat diner. We just can't say now.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the way the credit practices are in Canada. There should be checks and balances against the buyer that "wants it" but doesn't have the ability to pay. And if you do screw up, the individual should be accountable for their sins.

Look at the figures. I know a young couples who together earn $67,000 buy a house for $109,000 with 15.25% interest. They also just purchased an HHR ($29,500 @ 3.5%), and jokingly maxed their Visa at $10,000. How are they going to pay?

I know Div, it doesn't bother you, but here is reality. All this debt is coming to roost because it's all tied in together in one way or another. America now has more debt both on the federal level, and the citizen level than at any time in human history. Add to that the fact that those with the ability to pay are seeing a smaller ratio of what they earn and can save. Many corporations are having problem keeping their ebitda numbers in line, which when they fall force employers to terminate benefits or employees. You could be standing working in the metal shop when HR taps you on the shoulder and says your done, because a client couldn't pay, or a materials handler called in credit.

I think Captain Beyond is right, and we may not have seen the worse yet. I look at 2008 as being a real bitch, and I think we're going to see more people get into more trouble. I see some big corporations having some financial meltdowns, and our unemployment figures go up.

The sad truth to this fiasco is that most of us have some part in this fiasco. We've tossed so many logs on the fire that now, when it's out of control, it's going to take 10 times the effort to put out the fire. We should have sat on our logs and just admired the small flickering fire and the warmth it gave us, and appreciated what we had.


EDIT: On the example I gave on the couple I know, goto http://www.mortgage-calc.com and enter their figures, and do the math. And yes, there are many more people just like that around.

Divinorumus
12-19-2007, 08:19 PM
I think Captain Beyond is right, and we may not have seen the worse yet. I look at 2008 as being a real bitch, ...
I've been warning about all this back we everyone just laughed and thought I was crazy. .......

Now it's my turn to laugh. Yup. No elections next fall either. Pretty bad. Be ready. Or not. Or whatever. I don't care, really, it's none of my concern. Do whatever, earthlings, it's not my party. I'm just visiting.


... and I think we're going to see more people get into more trouble.
And I think we'll be seeing less people. Period. (if you catch my drift. be ready.) When the oil stops, all hell will break out. Major panic. Mass chaos. Total lawlessness. All the food will be gone in weeks. Everything will stop. Your government will disappear. That's when you lucky ones get to learn a new language. :biglaugh: And god can sort out the rest, ha. Really, be ready. February! :shhh: big market and bank crash ~ to bring the unprepared masses to their knees. I will let you know a few days in advance when they will pull the plug on your way of life so you can escape to your bat caves for safety. Be ready.

VOguy
12-19-2007, 08:53 PM
We've copied your message, printed it, put it in the mayonnaises jar. It's been shipped to Art to put in the Bell family vault. We'll open it up November 4th.