View Full Version : Atheist Sues to Thwart Inauguration Prayer
01-10-2005, 10:40 AM
Atheist Sues to Thwart Inauguration Prayer
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - An atheist who sued because he did not want his young daughter exposed to the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance has filed a suit to bar the saying of a prayer at President Bush's inauguration.
Michael Newdow notes that two ministers delivered Christian invocations at Bush's first inaugural ceremony in 2001, and that plans call for a minister to do the same before Bush takes the oath of office Jan. 20.
In a lawsuit in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, Newdow says the use of a prayer is unconstitutional. The case is tentatively scheduled Jan. 14.
Last year, the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals tossed the same lawsuit, saying Newdow did not suffer "a sufficiently concrete and specific injury." But the decision did not bar him from filing the challenge in a different circuit.
Newdow is best known for trying to remove "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.
He won that case more than two years ago before a federal appeals court, which said it was an unconstitutional blending of church and state for public school students to pledge to God.
In June, however, the Supreme Court said Newdow could not lawfully sue because he did not have custody of his elementary school-aged daughter, on whose behalf he sued, and because the girl's mother objected to the suit.
Newdow refiled the pledge suit in Sacramento federal court this week, naming eight other plaintiffs who are custodial parents or the children themselves.
01-10-2005, 10:51 AM
What are your thoughts Random, I know you have some. :)
01-10-2005, 11:08 AM
I think this guy is ASKING to get wacked by some ULTRA Rightwing wacko like Eric Rudolph.
My other thoughts well lets just say its worked sence the begginen of our countery the men that WROTE rhe Sep of church and state took this oath without getting TO political I see no ISSUE
01-10-2005, 01:54 PM
With all due respect, I have read the Constitution of the United States and just where does it say anything about separation of church and state?
Now mind you, I am not a big Bible thumper, but I am getting tired of everyone who has never read the Constitution saying this over and over again, especially since there is no foundation for this.
Personally, I am in favor of more or less separating religion from governments running their various countries, but people should really get this right and produce some legislation to this effect if they feel it is important.
I didn't see it written anywhere in the Declaration of Independance either, although I haven't read this document for many years. By the way in the Dec of In. it calls for the overthrow of the government if they are not fullfilling the wishes of the people. It is a bit more complicated than this, but the kernal of a potential revolution exists there.
01-10-2005, 02:50 PM
Thing is most Americans are christians, and are in fact growing tired of feeling like they are being attacked and the government allows this to happen. I can see a new civil war on the coming front, one where the christians have to fight, to kill to survive or else be murdered for their belief in Go and Jesus.
01-10-2005, 02:58 PM
You know what is interesting? Yesterday my daughter started saying "the pledge of allegience"..The words were'nt all right, but I was so impressed she memorized it the way she did. Holding her hand over her heart. I was so proud. She doesn't quite know what she is saying, but it makes her feel like she belongs.
She's been asking what "America" is and the world, and it's a daunting task trying to explain.
I think the pledge is fine...after all I said it some 25 years ago in school, and I'm very open minded...it didn't "alter" me.
Don't we have bigger issues at hand right now?
01-10-2005, 04:26 PM
I have no problem with the Pledge of Allegiance as long as an individual has no repercussions should they choose to opt out of saying it. This should not be mandatory. To me forcing someone to say the Pledge is as wrong as telling someone else they can't say it at all.
As far as the Christian values this country was founded on, I agree with you IW. The whole United States is regarded as at least 90% Christian. In this country the majority rules. I don't understand the Christian bashing, with one caveat. They should stop telling other religions that they are going to go to hell if they don't believe in Christianity. Telling someone their religion is wrong and they are going to burn for it forever is causing a huge backlash from other religions and non religious people who are tired of being told they are wrong.
As I used to remind my ex boss, there are religions on this planet that predate Christianity. So yesterday their religion was right, today it is wrong? Telling them they are wrong and are going to burn because of it totally condemns ancestors who had no knowledge of Christ because he didn't exist yet. Or is there a grandfather clause in Heaven? Again I respectfully say this because I believe this tiny little change in Christian dogma would go a long way to healing this planet.
To me it is not a matter of tolerating (which implies we don't like it, but we have no choice but to allow it), but a matter of accepting that other people have other religions. Acceptance means allowing others freedom to choose for themselves and not condemning them for their choices.
However that being said, hypothetically if it were to come down to one religion prevailing on this planet I personally would prefer Christianity in it's purist form. I don't profess to know all religions, it just seems that Christianity has some truly high ideals that if followed with love and grace would do wonders for our human race.
01-10-2005, 08:01 PM
Lord knows I will be the first to disagree with ALL of the Christian teachings.Having said that though,we must all admit that we of the "Western Civilization" because of our forms of government which are based on Christian principals,are blessed more than any other parts of the world.We have more freedom,(or the illusion of it),more wealth,more say so in our daily lives than any other parts of the world.
Some fundamentlists go too far,but so do some atheists,muslims and so on.Somewhere in the middle,we can have a fairly happy place here.
The seperation of church and state does NOT exist anywhere in the Constitution,only the laws to not allow a "State Religion".It is quite ironic that the Supreme Court which took prayer out of schools,has on the walls of it's own chambers,Biblical scriptures.The state will also ask you to swear to GOD in a court of law. :confused:
01-10-2005, 10:14 PM
The real interesting thing here is whether we as a society are going to let one individual dictate to the rest of the country what we are going to allow or not allow in a public venue.
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