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Thread: Is Obama - Barry Soetoro Eligible? - Who Is Obama? - Show us the proof!

  1. #144
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    I'm really depressed that you guys are a bunch of birthers. I'm also depressed about many of the people in this country. So much for enlightenment. There are so many problems in this world and they don't involve a GD birth certificate. So let's do some stirring of the racial passions, because that's really going to solve the problems with our economy, environmental degradation, the war, etc., etc. You don't have to like Obama to not be Orly Taitz, you know.

    Even Glenn Beck thinks that birthers are very wrong, and he's about as far away from being an Obama fan as one can be.

    Personally, I think that "the President must be born in the USA" should be changed. I'd change the requirement to "must be a citizen of the US for 20 or 30 years." It's not going to happen within my lifetime, though.

  2. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabucat View Post
    Personally, I think that "the President must be born in the USA" should be changed. I'd change the requirement to "must be a citizen of the US for 20 or 30 years." It's not going to happen within my lifetime, though.
    But...but that could mean Arnie would be our next president!! Just kidding! I agree with you on this.
    "Happiness can only come from inside of you and is the result of your love. When you are aware that no one else can make you happy, and that happiness is the result of your love, this becomes the greatest mastery of the Toltecs: the Mastery of Love." ~~don Miguel Ruiz~~

  3. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabucat View Post
    I'm really depressed that you guys are a bunch of birthers. I'm also depressed about many of the people in this country. So much for enlightenment. There are so many problems in this world and they don't involve a GD birth certificate. So let's do some stirring of the racial passions, because that's really going to solve the problems with our economy, environmental degradation, the war, etc., etc. You don't have to like Obama to not be Orly Taitz, you know.

    Even Glenn Beck thinks that birthers are very wrong, and he's about as far away from being an Obama fan as one can be.

    Personally, I think that "the President must be born in the USA" should be changed. I'd change the requirement to "must be a citizen of the US for 20 or 30 years." It's not going to happen within my lifetime, though.
    Don't be so quick to throw your seeming labels, judgment and categorization here fabucat.

    I think perhaps you may not get it...we are neither "birther's", or left , right or care much what Beck or any of the media "gods" say and sway on, the "left or right" seeming orators spew.....on IW for the most part....we are after the truth, whatever that is.

    Actually, I had to look the term "birther's" up because I had no idea what that meant.

    Aren't you tired of being lied to and snowed on many fronts? You really think and believe that Beck, Rush, CNN, Fox or any of the MS whores etc., will tell you the truth?....just asking.

    If you do, good for you, however please don't come here and force your truth and disdain on those who don't see the world as you choose to.

    Good for discussion though I guess............

    I really don't care if Obama came from Mars....that's not the point....more than plural.

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  4. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judee View Post
    But...but that could mean Arnie would be our next president!! Just kidding! I agree with you on this.
    Arnold Short-Necker wouldn't be so bad as President, as politicians go. Oh yes, I don't agree with a lot of his policies, he's most likely corrupt, but he's got some common sense (like Clinton, he doesn't get bogged down in ideological purity). I also think that he's brilliant.

    I don't live in California, and I realize I might feel completely differently if I lived there, however.

  5. #148
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    I'm sorry, but the entire birth certificate discussion surrounding Obama appears to be a conspiracy to deligitimize Obama as President, because his father wasn't white and because his father came from a different country. At a certain point, Americans who don't like Obama have to accept the fact that a black man is our President. Conspiracy theories abounded in liberal circles that Bush stole both elections. I wasn't happy with the results of the 2000 and 2004 elections but after a certain point, and it didn't take very long for me, I had to accept the fact that the man that I didn't vote for was my President. That's reality. Now I suppose that one could argue about the legitimacy of Obama's birth certificate ad nauseum, but as conspiracy theories go, it's pretty lame. Unlike conspiracy theories surrounding the Kennedy assassination and 9/11, the birth certificate issue doesn't speak to serious issues regarding foreign policy, the CIA, and the military. Another reason why the birth certificate issue is moot is because if McCain had won, there would be ANOTHER group of people saying that McCain wasn't legit, because he had been born in the Panama Canal territory. There are many SUBSTANTIVE reasons to disagree with either man, and where each of them were born is a pretty trivial issue.

    I'm sorry if I sounded disdainful in my post. That wasn't my intent. Instead my intent was to express severe and extreme depression regarding the future of the human race. Perhaps you'd feel the same about some of my beliefs. It doesn't mean that I don't think that people on this forum are decent human beings.

    It's why I respect the Tea Party a heckuva lot more than Orly Taitz. Tea Party members get out there and protest the President's policies Orly Taitz just litigates the birth certificate issue in the Court system, which doesn't speak to a darned thing wrong with the US.

    Of course I don't believe the MSM. It's great to have many sources of news and I do. It's also important to sample the MSM, see what kind of story they're spinning, and read between the lines.

    Unfortunately, for me to stay sane, there are a few things that I have to take as fact, and perhaps they aren't true. I believe that the Earth is round, the Holocaust was real, and that Barack Obama is a citizen of the USA. If that makes me closed-minded, so be it. Everything else, just about, I can be open-minded about.

  6. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabucat View Post
    I'm sorry, but the entire birth certificate discussion surrounding Obama appears to be a conspiracy to deligitimize Obama as President, because his father wasn't white and because his father came from a different country. At a certain point, Americans who don't like Obama have to accept the fact that a black man is our President. Conspiracy theories abounded in liberal circles that Bush stole both elections. I wasn't happy with the results of the 2000 and 2004 elections but after a certain point, and it didn't take very long for me, I had to accept the fact that the man that I didn't vote for was my President. That's reality. Now I suppose that one could argue about the legitimacy of Obama's birth certificate ad nauseum, but as conspiracy theories go, it's pretty lame. Unlike conspiracy theories surrounding the Kennedy assassination and 9/11, the birth certificate issue doesn't speak to serious issues regarding foreign policy, the CIA, and the military. Another reason why the birth certificate issue is moot is because if McCain had won, there would be ANOTHER group of people saying that McCain wasn't legit, because he had been born in the Panama Canal territory. There are many SUBSTANTIVE reasons to disagree with either man, and where each of them were born is a pretty trivial issue.

    I'm sorry if I sounded disdainful in my post. That wasn't my intent. Instead my intent was to express severe and extreme depression regarding the future of the human race. Perhaps you'd feel the same about some of my beliefs. It doesn't mean that I don't think that people on this forum are decent human beings.

    It's why I respect the Tea Party a heckuva lot more than Orly Taitz. Tea Party members get out there and protest the President's policies Orly Taitz just litigates the birth certificate issue in the Court system, which doesn't speak to a darned thing wrong with the US.

    Of course I don't believe the MSM. It's great to have many sources of news and I do. It's also important to sample the MSM, see what kind of story they're spinning, and read between the lines.

    Unfortunately, for me to stay sane, there are a few things that I have to take as fact, and perhaps they aren't true. I believe that the Earth is round, the Holocaust was real, and that Barack Obama is a citizen of the USA. If that makes me closed-minded, so be it. Everything else, just about, I can be open-minded about.
    Thank you for your response and your "apology" fabucat....I do mean that sincerely.

    You may see this discussion in this thread as you paint above and that is your perogative.

    However I would suggest that many of us here vehemently or at minimum somewhat disagree with you.

    We do not encourage judgment on persons or groups here for their CBT's, if and when they differ from our own.

    We do encourage all to speak their mind, with respect and keeping discussion on the topic at hand ( the what) and not the whom ( person, group etc)

    Imaginative Worlds Vision and Posting Policy

    If you have read this thread in it's entirety, which I assume you have, you will see, that no one here has any objection to the Presidents race, his ancestry, other than to question the legitimacy of his claims or origin, his history within the requirements to hold office under the "rules" of your country and seeming contradicting evidence or not to support just that.

    In addition, the latest article by Madsen, IMHO raises some serious questions relative to a much larger picture, albeit the focus of it is on Obama.

    My attitude is simple...perhaps everything we know is "wrong".....like the book.

    I understand wanting to cling to truths or paradigms...it's easier that way, however if one is really on the quest for the truth, it seems to mean one has to question just about anything and everything.


    We all have our CBT's ( current best theories) here on many issues....what fits within our paradigm or what does not.

    Since most of us cannot prove most of what we discuss here one way or another, we gather here to discuss, debate, agree to agree somewhat or not....disagree etc., and to post information we find for consideration.

    United we stand and divided we fall......polarization is still a very effective tool and technique.

    Only together, in harmony ....even with divergent POV will we ever have any hope to get, both to the truth and a path to free humanity from all the falsehood, lies and deception we have been taught and fed.

    Do unto Others as you would have them do unto you



  7. #150
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    Madsen's appearance with Alex Jones yesterday on his research:



    Other 2 parts HERE

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  8. #151
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    I'm not trashing anyone here who believes in this, but I sometimes wonder where Wayne Madsen is coming from. Back during the Bush years, what Madsen published was catnip for us liberals. He wrote that Bush and Condi were doing the wild thing and that Laura Bush was so pissed off that she moved into the Mayflower Hotel. We believed it because we so desperately wanted to believe it.

    Now Madsen publishes catnip for conservatives. He's written that Obama and frmr GOP TN Senator Frist were engaged in a homosexual relationship (I'm all for reaching across the aisle, but that's ridiculous!). And Obama's birth certificate is fake! Also, Obama and Rahm Emanual are gay lovers!!! You see, there's no record of Obama cheating on Michelle with chicks, so he must be queer!!!!

    Please be advised that unlike Alex Jones (who is sincere), you have to pay $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to get on Madsen's website. So Madsen writes this outrageous stuff to appeal to whomever's out of power. It would be pretty funny except that all of this nonsense serves to divide us.

    At this time, I'd consider the National Enquirer to be far more accurate than Wayne Madsen.

  9. #152
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    Well here's another one......guess it begs the question why " It is estimated that Obama’s legal team has now spent well over $1.4 million dollars blocking access to documents every American should have access to. The question is why would he spend so much money to do this?"....

    Now you all know I would be posting this no matter which puppet is on the stage currently....

    The Mystery of Barack Obama Continues

    Most Americans don’t realize we have elected a president whom we know very little about.

    Researchers have discovered that Obama’s autobiographical books are little more than PR stunts, as they have little to do with the actual events of his life. The fact is we know less about President Obama than perhaps any other president in American history and much of this is due to actual efforts to hide his record. This should concern all Americans.

    A nation-wide network of researchers has sprung up to attempt to fill in the blanks, but at every opportunity Obama’s high-priced lawyers have built walls around various records or simply made them disappear. It is estimated that Obama’s legal team has now spent well over $1.4 million dollars blocking access to documents every American should have access to. The question is why would he spend so much money to do this?


    The president who campaigned for a more “open government” and “full disclosure” will not unseal his medical records, his school records, his birth records or his passport records. He will not release his Harvard records, his Columbia College records, or his Occidental College records—he will not even release his Columbia College thesis. All his legislative records from the Illinois State Senate are missing and he claims his scheduling records during those State Senate years are lost as well. In addition, no one can find his school records for the elite K-12 college prep school, Punahou School, he attended in Hawaii.


    What is he hiding? Well, for starters, some of these records will shed light on his citizenship and birth.............


    Article Continues

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  10. #153
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    If he really is a US citizen, then why doesn't he produce the GD birth certificate already?!?!?!?

    Journalist Backs Off Obama Birth Certificate Claim

    January 27, 2011 Journalist Mike Evans is backing off a claim that Hawaii governor Neil Abercrombie told him he was unable to find Obama’s original birth certificate after a search of state and hospital archives.





    Alex Jones covers Mike Evans’ initial claim about the birth certificate.



    Evans told Fox News he is remorseful and embarrassed that he “misspoke” to the media about the missing records.


    “Yesterday, talking to Neil’s office, Neil says that he searched everywhere using his powers as governor,” Evans said on January 20. He state that “there is no Barack Obama birth certificate in Hawaii. Absolutely no proof at all that he was born in Hawaii.”


    On Wednesday, Evans changed his story. “Only this I can you tell you is 100 percent fact: that Neil never told me there was no birth certificate,” he told Fox News. “I never talked to him.”


    The original claim was part of Evans’ syndicated five-minute feature, “On the Road with Mike Evans,” which is broadcast on 34 stations across the country each morning.


    Evans said on January 20 he accidentally told Minnesota’s KQRS radio station that he had spoken directly with Abercrombie about the Obama birth certificate. Evans says he has been a close friend of the governor since the 1980s.


    “I called Neil, but Neil never called me back,” Evans told Fox News. “I haven’t talked to Neil since he’s been governor.”


    A former Hawaii elections clerk, Tim Adams, signed an affidavit swearing he was told by his supervisors in Hawaii that no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate existed for Obama in Hawaii, according to Jerome R. Corsi and WorldNetDaily. According to Adams, neither Queens Medical Center nor Kapi’olani Medical Center in Honolulu had any record of Obama having been born in their medical facilities.


    “Senior officers in the City and County of Honolulu Elections Division told me on multiple occasions that no Hawaii long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate existed for Senator Obama in the Hawaii Department of Health,” Adams’ affidavit reads, “and there was no record that any such document had ever been on file in the Hawaii Department of Health or any other branch or department of the Hawaii government.”


    In 2010, Abercrombie read a letter at a Kapi’olani Medical Center centennial dinner in Honolulu that supposedly was authored by Obama, claiming Kapi’olani as his birth hospital. The letter later turned out to be a computer-created facsimile of a letter using HTML and not an actual letter. It was subsequently displayed on the Kapi’olani website.


    Neil Abercrombie was running for governor at the time. The White House has not confirmed who wrote or sent the letter.


    The Constitution states that only “a natural-born citizen,” or a citizen in the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of the President.


    Sources:

    Celebrity Journalist: I Never Spoke to Hawaii Gov About Obama Birth Certificate, Jana Winter, Fox News, January 26, 2011.


    Hawaii official now swears: No Obama birth certificate, Jerome R. Corsi, WorldNetDaily, January 24, 2011.


    Full Article

    Do unto Others as you would have them do unto you



  11. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    If he really is a US citizen, then why doesn't he produce the GD birth certificate already?!?!?!?
    Let's look at the facts.

    (1) Is Barack Obama the President of the United States?
    Yes.

    (2) Is being a natural-born United States citizen one of the Constitutional requirements for holding the office of President of the U.S.?
    Yes.

    (3) Does the U.S. government verify that people are natural-born citizens before declaring them President of the United States?
    Yes.

    (4) Has a long-form birth certificate with the signature of the doctor, the witnesses, the birth date, and so forth, which normally accompany any birth certificate, for Barack Obama been produced?
    No.

    (5) If #4 is 'No', how can #3 be 'Yes'?
    It depends on the definition of 'verify'.

    (6) In this case, what is the definition of 'verify'?
    As in any case and with any definition, whatever the U.S. government decides it is.

    (7) Whatever happened to 'rule of law' & true transparency in government?
    Expectation of true transparency is futile. 'Rule of Law' is irrelevant.

    (9) Let me guess what's next: I'm going to be assimilated?
    You got it.

  12. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Powerfun View Post
    Let's look at the facts.

    (1) Is Barack Obama the President of the United States?
    Yes.

    (2) Is being a natural-born United States citizen one of the Constitutional requirements for holding the office of President of the U.S.?
    Yes.

    (3) Does the U.S. government verify that people are natural-born citizens before declaring them President of the United States?
    Yes.

    (4) Has a long-form birth certificate with the signature of the doctor, the witnesses, the birth date, and so forth, which normally accompany any birth certificate, for Barack Obama been produced?
    No.

    (5) If #4 is 'No', how can #3 be 'Yes'?
    It depends on the definition of 'verify'.

    (6) In this case, what is the definition of 'verify'?
    As in any case and with any definition, whatever the U.S. government decides it is.

    (7) Whatever happened to 'rule of law' & true transparency in government?
    Expectation of true transparency is futile. 'Rule of Law' is irrelevant.

    (9) Let me guess what's next: I'm going to be assimilated?
    You got it.
    ...well stated Dr P!!

    Do unto Others as you would have them do unto you



  13. #156
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    More than interesting........pattern, players ....hmmmm....

    SPECIAL REPORT: Ann Dunham Soetoro


    A third world leader who had challenged the hegemony of the United States was accused of trying to obtain an atomic bomb and helping to create an “axis” of America’s enemy. We are not referring to either Saddam Hussein or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad but to President Sukarno of Indonesia.


    U.S. support for the Indonesian coup and Project CAMELOT

    President Obama's step-father, Lolo Soetoro, a reserve Indonesian army officer called back into service in the army in 1965 from his CIA-supplied scholarship at the East-West Center at the University of Hawaii, was a foot soldier in the putschist cabal of General Suharto, the man who the CIA designated as the leader of the 1965 coup that deposed Sukarno and targeted between 500,000 and 1 million members of the Indonesian Communist Party (PKI) for elimination. Lolo Soetoro was one of some 4000 Indonesian army officers who were trained in the United States between 1958 and 1965 and the CIA and Pentagon ensured that these officers would be available for the long-planned overthrow of Sukarno. In fact, an overwhelming majority of Indonesian army officers who were trained abroad received their training in the United States, not in the Soviet Union or China. The air force, on the other hand, was seen as pro-PKI and PKI influence extended into the junior officer ranks of the Indonesian navy, particularly in Surabaya, eastern Java.


    The Indonesian army also included some PKI sympathizers, especially in units in central and eastern Java, which were also areas of interest to Ann Soetoro in her "anthropological field work" for the U.S. government. In addition, the police force in central and eastern Java was also sympathetic to the PKI.


    Obama's mother, Ann Soetoro, was dispatched from Hawaii to Indonesia in 1967, along with seven year-old Barack Obama, to infiltrate villages in Java to carry out a CIA survey of political leanings among the Javanese population. Those unfortunate enough to be tagged as Communists or Sukarno supporters were then targeted for elimination by the CIA, which turned the target lists over to Suharto's army officers, including Lolo Soetoro. During the Cold War, the use of anthropologists by the CIA and Defense Department in the collection of ethnographic and cultural intelligence was commonplace, with modern roots in a classified U.S. intelligence program created in 1964, three years before Dunham Soetoro arrived in Indonesia, called Project CAMELOT. The first testing ground for CAMELOT was Chile and the target was that nation's indigenous population, including the Mapuche Indians.


    The use of anthropologists like Dunham Soetoro was supported through grants laundered by the Ford, Rockefeller, and Carnegie Foundations. Many of Dunham Soetoro's activities in Java were funded by the Ford Foundation.


    CAMELOT was officially described as follows by the U.S. Army: "Success in such tasks as equipping and training indigenous forces for an internal security mission, civic action, psychological warfare, or other counterinsurgency action depends on a thorough understanding of the indigenous social structure, upon the accuracy with which changes within the indigenous culture, particularly violent changes, are anticipated, and the effects of various courses of action available to the military and other agencies of government upon the indigenous process of change."


    CAMELOT's work was conducted at American University in Washington, DC by the Pentagon's Special Operations Research Office (SORO). SORO ran the Army's psychological warfare operations. In addition to CAMELOT "research" in Chile, SORO anthropological research also targeted the indigenous peoples of Colombia and Peru.


    CAMELOT still exists under a new name and Obama supports it

    Today, a number of elements in CAMELOT are integral to the much-discredited "Human Terrain System" (HTS) operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. As with CAMELOT and other covert operations involving anthropologists, HTS has been charged with exacerbating tensions between various indigenous groups and tribes to create intelligence opportunities for the U.S. military. The targeting of village leaders, a replay, of the CIA's PHOENIX assassination program in South Vietnam, part of CIA Southeast Asia regional chief William Colby's Civil Operations and Revolutionary Development Support (CORDS) program, has also been a charge leveled against those involved with HTS. President Obama has done nothing to curtail HTS funding, although there have been some moves by some in Congress to do so...........


    Article Continues

    Do unto Others as you would have them do unto you



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