TV Fakery & No Airplane Theory

[MuseNoir]

AHH == BenSlain is not a "troll". Most of us know him or have seen him around for a long time here or elsewhere.

Selfishly, I really like good discussions that don't turn ugly

[AgainHayHut]

AHH == BenSlain is not a "troll". Most of us know him or have seen him around for a long time here or elsewhere.

Selfishly, I really like good discussions that don't turn ugly

He insulted my age instead of my arguments. Until he came, we were having a polite discussion that didn't involve flaming at all. He is, thus, behaving trollishly here. His behavior in this thread is unacceptable.

[AgainHayHut]

A 16 year old

Immaturity, Ad-hominem attack

sitting in his basement

I don't work in the basement -- heck, I haven't been in my house's basement in years. Thanks for using that cliche, though. You've shown everyone how indoctrinated into TV culture you are.

looking up things on the internet

Why is it any different when I "look up things on the Internet" than when you "look up things on the Internet"?

It isn't. Sorry -- your sentence may sound funny, witty, and convincing when you first type it, but it doesn't even make sense when one examines it closely.

that happened when he was 7 years old

Again, an ad-hominem attack. I wouldn't attack your age/gender/race/country/class/etc., so why do you feel the need to stoop to take such a low road when dealing with me?

It certainly puts egg on your face when you start throwing insults at a 16 year old who is trying to have a mature, intelligent, evidence-based discussion with you and others. It makes you, a grown adult, look less mature than a 16 year old.

is not research.

The definition of research: "systematic investigation to establish facts"

Whether someone is 16 years old, 7 years old, or whatever, they are not unable to conduct research into a subject such as 9/11. In fact, if I was just a "16 year old sitting in my basement looking up stuff on conspiracy sites", you would have no problem disproving my arguments in a mature and intelligent manner.

The fact that attacks on my age and emotional jabs ("Waaah! It's insulting!") are all you've presented, I am compelled to believe that you have nothing of substance to say. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

A 16 year old sitting in his basement looking up things on the internet that happened when he was 7 years old is not research.

Anyone else find it funny how this guy seems to care more about my age than the facts that have been presented? I haven't seen him address a single one.

Oh yeah -- read the laws of motion yet, Benny?

[maryals]

AgainHuyHut, you haven't addressed these arguments of mine

As for these Videos on this Thread and the arguments made: Just MNSHO here: Raw video, that hasn't been cleaned up for contrast and brightness, will show odd shadows and light ... brightness where there should be shadow, shadow where there should be light, and even odd sky colors.
Speaking of "odd" sky color ... anyone can check the Naval Astronomical charts to see the angle of elevation of the sun at any time of day. Check NWS weather records for temp and humidity at any time of day, as well as particulate in the air including pollen, yes pollen even in a city.. THEN come back and tell me that the sky color is "odd" on that or any video.
About the "fakey looking" falling bodies. Have you ever seen falling bodies in real life? Or is your only experience in this vein watching stunt men and stunt women in movies and TV shows? I have never seen an actual body falling from a great height so how would I know what looks "fakey" and what looks "real"? How can you?
You see, here's the thing ... folks like the author of this Thread are making extra ordinary claims, so, extra ordinary proofs must be given.
If I can poke holes in your theories regarding those videos, then those "proofs" fall apart.

Mary and Bessie

[maryals]

-Why is the sky an "evening" color? Remember that, at the time this shot was supposedly taken, it was a clear morning in New York.
-What's with the weird green color of the buildings?
-Why is the "Jumper" a black silhouette?
-Why does the jumper seem to 'vanish' in mid-air at a certain point?

Also note that the camera movements/zoom-out are unrealistically calm and professional.

In a City there is no such thing as a truly "clear sky". Travel to Big Sky Montana, or Alaska, or the High Mountains of the Rockies, to witness truly "Clear Sky". Then you will understand the "weird" colors of the sky in this and other of the videos you present.
The jumper appears to be a black silhouette, and appears to disappear, because of the natural tricks of light and shadow within those concrete and steel canyons. The same things would happen of videos taken in natural canyons.
You see, your age is brought into question because, unless you were a Military Brat, or Carney Brat, or Circus Brat, you could not have done much traveling to witness things first hand.
Is traveling necessary? Yes, when it comes to things like expressing your opinions or accepting someone else's opinions regarding sky color and sky condition.
I will continue to re-read your posts here to give those "factual" arguments you seek.

Mary and Bessie

[Alpha]

O.K. folks

Let me remind you that this thread is about possible and alleged "TV Fakery and No Airplane Theory", the content presented, for discussion, debate, input, counterpoint etc.

Anyone having anything to say about this subject matter, pro, con whatever, is more than welcome to input and participate based on the WHAT is being presented here, and not the WHO....bring your "evidence" or what you think you have and let's talk about it.

This thread will NOT continue to be about discounting persons or person, based on anything personal.....age, gender, race, orientation....the WHO.... as any rebuttal or substantiation for discussion!!!!!.

The former is clearly a personal attack on a poster on this forum and violates our Posting Policy.

Let's get back to the subject at hand, the questions that have been presented to all parties for input, debate and rebuttal.

Both AHH and Ben have been presented with questions that remain unanswered.......let's continue from here folks.

Please be warned....further flaming and personal attacks will result with appropriate response within the TOS here.

[maryals]

Yes, the TV Fakery evidence is some of the most important evidence there is for the following reasons:

1. It is not debatable. It can be observed by one's own eyes. It can also be observed by an honest judge and jury.

I have just proven that is IS "debatable". It is an arrogance to say that anything "...is not debatable". Everything in life is debatable. Otherwise, why would there be Philosophers? Logicians? Theologians? I say with kindness that, again, your youth is showing. Your research and zeal is admirable. But, the experience of Age tempers things, puts things into perspective. Allows one to see the holes in the opinions and theories of others, as well as the holes in one's own theories and opinions.

And with all of the hard evidence proving these videos to be fake, I am insulted at how closed-minded you are towards this.

It is hardly "hard evidence" if I am able to give logical explanations for what you deem "fakery" in at least some of the videos.

You seem to be bright and intelligent, I look forward to your answers to my arguments here.

Mary and Bessie

[Alpha]

Everything in life is debatable.

Well said Mary and I totally agree

Each and everyone of us has , our own CBT's ( current best theories) of our experience, what we have stumbled across/experienced/ read/ assiimilated/ accepted/rejected etc , our depth and breadth in any specific area and thus what we really know or think we know.

If we all had irrefutable answers to everything with undeniable proof...then I guess the quest would be over and we would have nothing to debate, discuss, search for or learn.

Thank You

[maryals]

I believe that the WTC collapse videos are fake, and I can prove that one with solid video evidence.

The speed of the collapse was probably even faster than what the videos show it to be (18 seconds). It was quite probably at free-or-faster-than-free fall, as the Seismic records showed.

Probably does not make for proof
These arguments I am presenting are, I hope, making you and all my friends here think things through.

Mary and Bessie

[maryals]

[/color]
If we all had irrefutable answers to everything with undeniable proof...then I guess the quest would be over and we would have nothing to debate, discuss, search for or learn.

Thank You

And then wouldn't existence be boring
I don't have counter arguments for everything AHH has presented. About many things surrounding 9/11 I just don't know. I'm still searching.

Mary and Bessie

[maryals]

FAKE WTC COLLAPSE VIDEOS






Falling Antennas

Another massive screwup on the part of the perpetrators. The antennas clearly fall in different directions in these side-by-sides. Two of these videos are fake.. or all of them.

Yes, do take a close look at the side by side videos of the falling Antenna. These are from 2 different angles. In the Left Hand Video the Antenna seems to be falling backwards. If you were a camera man located 90 degrees clockwise relative to location, then the antenna would appear to fall sideways.
Here's a simple test. Hold a pen or pencil straight up in the air. Tilt it backwards over your pointer finger. Straighten it back up. Now, turn your hand 90 degrees, tilt the pen or pencil against your pointer finger just as you did the first time. Only now, the pen or pencil appears to be moving sideways.

Mary and Bessie

[maryals]

As for the contradictory memorials, 'confusion'/'fog of war' cannot be argued, as these memorials were made well after the attacks.

Again, my 58 years of experience comes into play here. When someone experiences such a horrific thing, is a victim of such a horrific thing, they will suffer that confusion/fog of war for the rest of their lives.
And so, that said, I agree with you that eye witness reports may not be entirely reliable. The shock and horror of it all will have an effect on what anybody, save trained observers, believes they see.
As for the "fakey acting": again from personal experience I can tell you that most people, in an extremely emotional situation wrought with fear, will not speak in tones, volumes, use words and phrases, that can be considered "usual and normal". In an intense situation, some people, especially German and British descent, become extremely calm. Their speech becomes very measured, precise. Others, such as Italians and Spanish, become very animated, the pitch of their voice rises an octave.

Mary and Bessie

[maryals]

-When an airplane hits a building, the different videos taken of the event will show us flight paths that don't contradict each other. Therefore, the videos are fake.

The apparent angle, position, of anything is relative to the position of the viewer, including cameras. You have to be wary of optical illusions that can be created by the positions of a building, an antenna, a tree, a cloud, a window frame, the angle at which a camera is being held.

Well, Bessie is fussing for her afternoon walk. And I think I've given enough "food for thought" and discussion here to last us a little while.

Mary and Bessie