Mithras IS the Reason - Christian or Pagan?

[DorieTesla'sMom]

So, building on what Judee proposes: we Humans are the descendants of Beings from some other Planet/Plane/Universe who visited Earth and mated with the Beings they found on Earth.
Todays Geneticists theorize on something called "Genetic Memory". I think it explains salmon returning to where they were spawned and that sort of thing. Sparrows to Capistrano.
We Humans have a Genetic Memory of the Home of our Ancient Fathers. It was probably a better, nicer, and certainly more highly evolved place than Planet Earth. Our Genetic Longing to return there (like those frisky Salmon) explains such things as the Desire for Spiritual Growth, (our Spirit doesn't really want to grow it just wants to go home), a belief in a Paradise (there's no place like Home) and a belief in and fear of a Hell (banishment from Paradise, in other words, you can't ever go home).
Hmmmm, I could live with that!!

I think we are living at a very interesting time. Two thousand years ago, "Heaven" was the place with the shiny lights, with many legends of gods coming to visit among the people of Earth.
Just imagine how our view of the Universe will change after First Contact?

We'll have to clear some cobwebs out of our heads, accept that some "gods' were just other beings with shinier machines. And as a result, God is glorified even more because Earth is not the center of the Universe, but one part of a Creation so large and infinite we don't quite comprehend it.

[Divinorumus]

Just imagine how our view of the Universe will change after First Contact?

Yeah, LOL, I'm imagining.

[DorieTesla'sMom]

heehee, that's the calculated risk I guess... we might be considered a delicacy someplace!

[Alpha]

This is a very good synopsis IMHO of the various mythological representations of virgin birth, the relation to the sun/son of God, death and resurrection.

Titled: The Greatest Story Ever Sold - Part I



Other parts HERE

Full documentary: Zeitgeist

[Alpha]

I guess this may fit here best....

[Sadhu]

It's possible to have a theory and practice that is all true, though, over time psych-dynamics and socio-dynamics get misdirected, and all too often unknowingly so. Such could happen even without ill intent.

Spirituality is the study or science of what constitutes subtler realms of being, beyond beliefs, shallowness or opinions. Remaining in such lower realms is nearly always the conjugation of masturbatory vanity surfing. Those sincere in pursuit of truth develop subtler minds through intutional practices.

"Paradise" can be a castle in the sky, built by obsessive/compulsive neurotics and lived in, imaginarily, by psychotics, though that ain't necessarily so.

Pursuit of paradise also has to do with optimization in every realm of life, both personally and collectively. Modern people hear the word "paradise" as though it is a staticity, whereas it would also be a process, perhaps concurrent to a stasis. In the full spectrum of the term, "paradise" will also be an optimized homeostasis, most typically as a shared experience among a few or many, even in a temporal context. Toxic contrarians blather ridiculous preposterisms towards anyone who mentions the word or mentions "utopia", or even "ideal". Having arrived at human form, being conscious of subtler realms is definitive of being of the human species, and both "ideas" and "ideals" are integral to the vital essence and momentum of human evolution.

Archtypes of the Universe, regardless of culture, are available to humans, and most probably other vertebrates and other beings as well. Humans can, and do, arrive at greater comprehension of such evolutionary excellence through practices of dharana, yogasana, pranayama and other subtle-minded practices. What constitutes the Universe, how it operates and our human potential are arrived at through such practices.

That makes a lot of sense and is certainly a Simple Truth. It's a lot more simple and basic than what I proposed in my post about a Personage "Mithra" Re-Incarnating every few thousand years.

So, if this blows Religion out of the water, what becomes of Spirituality?
Is Spirituality a falsehood? Are all Spiritual teachings false? Is our Longing for "Spiritual Growth" nothing more than a Genetic Memory of our Origins on a Different Planet, Perhaps a different Plane, and a longing to return there?
Is our longing for a "Paradise" simply a Genetic Memory of a Home Planet that is much, much nicer and better than Earth?
Are you getting tired of reading questions?

Mary

[Sadhu]

Great thread, great for myth-busting, maturation of understanding history in truth, and respecting originations preceding the petrified walls of perception interfering with our spiritual progress, intercourse with life, reverence for ancestors, and transcendence of time and space.

I remember reading that Jesus, if he existed at all, may have been born in April or May, as the descriptors in the bible refer to blossomings that occur only in those months, whether 2000 years ago or today.

The more common myth about Krishna's death has to do with painting his toes while sitting in a tree. He painted his big toe red, a hunter mistook it for a desired bird, shot Krishna with an arrow that feld him.

Jesus was also a yogi. While his "raising the dead" feat is mentioned in the bible, many theologians and historians anticipate that he approached, with love, a person, Lazarus, who was being shunned by other jews, to elevate Lazarus to a worthy human status denied by his peers. Shunning is among the most severe practices prescribed in the talmud.

There is also a yogic practice called Kapalika, which includes, though is not limited to, resurrecting people from death. Thresholds of death are various. In the past, such as the time of Caesar, cessation of breath was the measure of determination, with "doctors" of the time using mirrors, polished metal, under the nose in search of evidence of moisture. Later it was the cessation of the heart. Today death is measured by the constant cessation of brainwaves over a determined period of time. A yogi knows there are subtler realms than even brain waves indicative of the presence of or continuation of life. Kapalikas can call upon this knowledge and skill to raise people from the dead, which also may have been what Jesus did in dealing with Lazarus. One of the kills of a Kapalika includes raising an army of rencently slain people on a battlefield to stand and continue fighting.

Pronunciation of words and prhases may change over time. You see that in the various ways a nation's name is spelled from within different languages. Most of us may know of Italy as Italy, whereas "in" Italy, it is known as Italia, for example. The names of people, their enunciation and consequential spelling may change over time and as such terms travel across vast lands.

Some times negligence or artificially constructed walls between cultures create partitions that disallow connectedness between cultures and shared histories. One such shared history are the Indian roots of Judaism. Many orthodox jews show reverence to god's feminine essence through kabalistic mystical practices that are similar to, and originate from, identifying and entreating dhakshinis in some Indian practices. The terms or names Isa, Isaiha, Isha, Isaia, Sham and others are variations of the name Shiva, or Shva, S'v, S'va, just as "Abraham" is a variation of Brahman or Brahmin, of which Abraham's may have been a family of.

Abraham's family traveled from what may have been the eastern edge of Persia or the Western edge of India during his youth, massive monsoons having forced a mass exodus from their homeland, motivating some to move further westward, including Abraham's family, carrying their traditions of worshipping Shiva with them, which, as they mingled with other cultures in other places, became Judaism, further added to by subsequent others, including Moses.

Learn more about the Indian roots of Judaism here: http://Abraham-WhoWasHe.Resolve.at/

[Alpha]

Sadhu et all...I think many of you will really enjoy this most thought provoking interview on this subject and much else.

Free streaming courtesy of Red Ice Creations for the first hour...I am not a member, so unless any of you are, you/we will not be able to listen to hour 2.

Leo Rutherford - Religion, The Greatest Fraud Ever Sold

Dovetails quite nicely into the topic of this thread IMHO.

My apologies in advance....I did not post this to minimize anyone's religious affiliation or belief structure....just profound food for thought.

I have also sent George, Lisa and Tom an email to suggest they do a show with Leo, with a link to this thread for background information.

[Alpha]

Thought this is a good time of year to bump this thread up as a refresh and for those who may have missed it.

[Insignis]

Thought this is a good time of year to bump this thread up as a refresh and for those who may have missed it.

Most assuredly m'lady,

It seems it is qutie obvious, for those who choose to delve, that much personification has been done over millenia. Actually it was quite brilliant of Constantine. He accomplished his goal and many others jumped on the band wagon to cement the impact of his devices.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/mithraism.html

I humbly suggest it is all about the SUN - Son. Too much evidence to refute otherwise. MO of course.

Short clip for your additional consideration

[Alpha]

Most assuredly m'lady,

It seems it is qutie obvious, for those who choose to delve, that much personification has been done over millenia. Actually it was quite brilliant of Constantine. He accomplished his goal and many others jumped on the band wagon to cement the impact of his devices.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/mithraism.html

I humbly suggest it is all about the SUN - Son. Too much evidence to refute otherwise. MO of course.

Short clip for your additional consideration

I couldn't agree with you more, Insignis.

[Alpha]

Easter: Christian or Pagan?

Contrary to popular belief, Easter does not represent the "historical" crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. In reality, the gospel tale reflects the annual "crossification" of the sun through the vernal equinox (Spring), at which time the sun is "resurrected," as the day begins to become longer than the night. Rather than being a "Christian" holiday, Easter celebrations date back into remotest antiquity and are found around the world, as the blossoming of spring did not escape the notice of the ancients, who revered this life-renewing time of the year, when winter had passed and the sun was "born again." The "Pagan" Easter is also the Passover, and Jesus Christ represents not only the sun but also the Passover Lamb ritually sacrificed every year by a number of cultures, including the Egyptians, possibly as early as 4,000 years ago and continuing to this day in some places.


Easter Around the World

Easter is "Pessach" in Hebrew, "Pascha" in Greek, "Pachons" in Latin and "Pa-Khonsu" in Egyptian, "Khonsu" being an epithet for the sun god Horus. In Anglo-Saxon, Easter or Eostre is goddess of the dawn, corresponding to Ishtar, Astarte, Astoreth and Isis. The word "Easter" shares the same root with "east" and "eastern," the direction of the rising sun.


eostre.jpg


The Phrygian sun and fertility god Attis was annually hung on a tree, dying and rising on March 24th and 25th, an 'Easter celebration' that occurred at Rome as well."

The principal Mexican solar festival was held at the vernal equinox, i.e., Easter, when sacrifices were made to sustain the sun. In India, the vernal equinox festival is called "Holi" and is especially sacred to the god Krishna. The Phrygian sun and fertility god Attis was annually hung on a tree, dying and rising on March 24th and 25th, an "Easter celebration" that occurred at Rome as well. The March dates were later applied to the Passion and Resurrection of Christ: "Thus," says Sir Frazer, "the tradition which placed the death of Christ on the twenty-fifth of March was ancient and deeply rooted. It is all the more remarkable because astronomical considerations prove that it can have had no historical foundation…." This "coincidence" between the deaths and resurrections of Christ and the older Attis was not lost on early Christians, whom it distressed and caused to use the "devil got there first" excuse for the motif's presence in pre-Christian paganism.

The rites of the "crucified Adonis," another dying and rising savior god, were also celebrated in Syria at Easter time. As Frazer states:

"When we reflect how often the Church has skillfully contrived to plant the seeds of the new faith on the old stock of paganism, we may surmise that the Easter celebration of the dead and risen Christ was grafted upon a similar celebration of the dead and risen Adonis, which, as we have seen reason to believe, was celebrated in Syria at the same season."

The salvific death and resurrection at Easter of the god, the initiation as remover of sin, and the notion of becoming "born again," are all ages-old Pagan motifs or mysteries rehashed in the later Christianity. The all-important death-
and-resurrection motif is exemplified in the "Parisian magical papyrus," a Pagan text ostensibly unaffected by Christianity:

"Lord, being born again I perish in that I am being exalted, and having been exalted I die; from a life-giving birth being born into death I was thus freed and go the way which Thou has founded, as Thou hast ordained and hast made the mystery."

Easter's Roving Date is Astrotheological


crossification.gif

In the gospel tale, there are two dates for the crucifixion: the 14th and the 15th of the month of Nisan, and within Christianity the date for Easter was debated for centuries. There continue to be two dates for Easter: the Western Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, thus demonstrating that this holiday is not the historical date of the actual crucifixion of a particular man. The dates are, in fact, astronomical, astrological and astrotheological. In explaining this roving date, one "distinguished churchman," as Catholic Church historian Eusebius called him, Anatolius, revealed the meaning of Easter and of Christ, as well as the fact that astrology was a known and respected science used in Christianity. Said Anatolius:....................


Christ as the Solar Hero

The need to time the Easter celebration - or resurrection - to coincide with the vernal equinox demonstrates that "Christ" is not an historical personage but the sun. This fact of Easter being the resurrection of the Sun has been well known for centuries, just as "the Savior's" birth at the winter solstice has been recognized as another solar motif. Another obvious clue as to Christ's nature is the fact that the "Lord's Day" is Sunday....................




The Paschal Chronicle

The Easter calculations were recomputed in the seventh century by the Christian author(s) of the Paschal Chronicle or Alexandria Chronicle, which seeks to establish a Christian chronology from "creation" to the year 628. The Paschal Chronicle determines the proper date for Easter as March 21st and the date of Christ's resurrection as March 25th (or, midnight, March 24, three days after the beginning of the equinox). In his various calculations, the Chronicle author discusses solar and lunar cycles, including the 19-year lunar cycle, by which he reckons the crucifixion and resurrection, concluding: "This is consistent with the prior determinations of reputable men in the calculation of the heavenly bodies." To wit, Christ's death and resurrection are based on astrotheology.

The Chronicle author further confirms that Christianity is a continuation of the ancient "Pagan" astrotheological religion when he states that the "Annunciation of our Lady," i.e., the conception of Christ by the Virgin Mary, likewise occurred on March 25th, the vernal equinox, exactly nine months prior to the December 25th birthdate, the annual rebirth of the sun.


For more information, including citations, see Suns of God.
See also Easter: The Resurrection of Spring.

Full Article

[Alpha]

Mithraism


The Catholic Encyclopedia as well as the early Church Fathers found this religion of Mithras very disturbing, as there are so many similarities between the two religions, as follows:

1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.

2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the "Great Religions of the World", page 330; "...it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism's sun god".

3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a "Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.

4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.

5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood.

6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length).

For more info: http://jdstone.org/cr/files/mithraschristianity.html

"Not everyone who keeps saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will get into the kingdom of heaven, but only the person who keeps doing the will of my Father in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?

Then I will tell them publicly, 'I've never known you. Get away from me, you evil people.
Matthew 7:21-23.

i pray to God to guide you to the truth...Amen
************************************************** **************
Theological Jesus & Mythological Jesus : St. Paul was answerable for having made during his lifetime wholesale changes to the religion of Jesus . Changes which Jesus himself never authorized to anyone during his lifetime. After his departure the pagan gentiles who accepted Paul's simplified version of "Christianity" continued to adapt it and to introduce into it many of the doctrines of paganism which they had already been practicing for so may centuries.

Among these doctrines was the concept of the "trinity" which was a very widely practiced and accepted concept in the pagan beliefs of the surrounding nations of Romans, Greeks, Babylonians, and Hindus many centuries before they were finally officially defined and "recognized" in the fourth century C.E.

After this doctrine received the official support of the pagan Roman emperor Constantine, a massive campaign of death and torture was launched against all Christians who refused to renounce the teachings of the apostles in favor of the modified and expanded Pauline doctrines. All but the Gospels acceptable to the Pauline faith were then systematically destroyed or re-written. Rev. Charles Anderson Scott has the following to say:

"It is highly probable that not one of the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) was in existence in the form which we have it, prior to the death of Paul. And were the documents to be taken in strict order of chronology, the Pauline Epistles would come before the synoptic Gospels."

The Noble Qur'an (the Muslims' Holy Scripture) confirms this with the words:

"Then woe to those who write the book (of Allah/God) with their own hands and then say: 'This is from Allah', to traffic with it for a miserable price. Woe to them for what their hands do write and for the gain they make thereby (The Noble Quran, 2:79)"