Mind Control In Music - The Aquarian Conspiracy?

[Alpha]

Great discussion!!!

I maintain that it is possible that music/audio stimulation likely can be used just as effectively as video/visual stimulation or the combination of the two.

Although I agree that perception varies individually with the beholder...I would say that some genres of music are much more likely to induce strong emotion and over a period of repetition and time influence that attitude, then behavior, societal grouping and culture of the specific and targetted group....not so new really...same as in generations previous to this one.....ie. drugs, free love etc.

Then lets look at something else....the use of subliminal/"back masking" that has been used before and likely still is used today.

Subliminal Messages
From thinkquest.org

The topic of backwards-recording in music often presents itself.

Especially in rock and electronic music, artists use these "back-masking" techniques and sometimes are accused of using them to subliminally influence their audience. It is very easy to record vocals or any other sounds backwards into music; artists that use computers or samplers can accomplish this with the press of a button. Vocals or other noises are simply recorded as usual and then flipped around backwards by the computer to be embedded "unintelligibly" into the music.

Some argue, however, that it is still intelligible enough for your subconscious mind to pick up on it. Take, for example, this waveform of some drums and a simple guitar part (~100k .aif .wav .au). It should be noticed that the guitar notes get increasingly lower, and so they will get increasingly higher when the clip is reversed. The words "give me money" have also been reversed and mixed into this clip using a simple freeware program. They are definitely not consciously discernible when the audio is played forwards, but when it is reversed, the words will be "forwards" again and although faint, they can be made out (~100k .aif .wav .au).

This is an example of back-masking, using a sample phrase (do not actually "give me money"!) that was completed in under ten minutes. This sound could now potentially influence someone subliminally. An interesting note about back-masked words is that they can easily be disguised in other sounds such as crashing waves or lapping water, blowing air or wind, cars driving by, or other ambient noises of that nature.

In this clip, a note on the guitar was simply played in the background to help blend the voice into the music. This process and can be done just as easily with analog audio equipment as on a computer, and to a degree, can be mimicked in human speech. It is much harder to do, but words can indeed be back-masked phonetically as they are in "Stairway to Heaven" by Led Zeppelin. The Zeppelin Backwards! site has audio clips available to download.

There are probably thousands and possibly millions of different albums out there that contain backwards lyrics. Some bands do this openly, as in Masterhit by Front 242 on the Backwards Masking web site.

Pitch Shifter, a band known for incorporating technology into their music, also includes backwards sounds in their songs and has been doing so for years. On their 1996 album Infotainment? they even go so far as to include two tracks of featured back-masked lyrics. The first track, "Introductory Disclaimer", begins with a voice explaining, essentially, that a subliminal message is about to be played. It then proceeds to play soft, waving string music in which the words "Pitch Shifter are good: Pitch Shifter are our pals" are embedded somewhat conspicuously. The second occurrence, "(Harmless) Interlude" on track six, contains the same lyrics and music.

In contrast to this open display of back-masking, the band Judas Priest was taken to court for allegedly using subliminal lyrics to urge their listeners to commit suicide.

Metallica, another metal band, has supposedly embedded words phonetically into their songs. This had been well documented at a web site called Acillatem, but it has unfortunately disappeared from the web.

In any case, back-masking exists and humans should be aware of what all is possible in audio production.

----------------------

Although rather Freudian in approach, and without great support of effectiveness in the scientific community ( atleast I haven't found much to confirm or refute either way) subliminals are still widely used today for health, healing, health aids such as stop smoking, weight loss with success.....based on this, is it not possible or even probable that the "social engineers" are using this widely popular medium as a tool with agenda??....just my current thoughts.....

[fabzilla]

The whole trick lies within the presentation as a whole.

By incorporating colors and sounds within a media piece an objective can be attained that can be elusive in nature but still carry a very dark motif behind it. Knowing of its existence is key but defining it what form it is in that you are viewing and or hearing as it is usually a combination, that is the eluding factor.

We as wingnuts know of dark initiatives and psyops as they are or as we would envision them to be promoted for them to utilize it in the manner that we would be shuddered to find exist would be a completely futile effort on their part and would burst the bubble on their little Utopic visions of control and influence. By disguising their efforts with layers of redirecting misinformation and hypotheticals, the fine calibrations within apparently “harmless” media presentations go unwatched and unchecked much like a “Trojan Horse” style scenario with very dark implications most assuredly. Too many scientific investigators just waiting for the opportunity to break the code behind the machine for them to pursue an avenue of influence that could be proven beyond the point of hypothesis for them to use it effectively.

Is there a conspiracy, hell yes.

But at what level is it operating and what are we actually looking for?

What they want us to think and see…

The secret behind the whole psyop nightmare turned reality and running its course.

Ask any culinary professional or marketing strategist.

It is all in the appearance and the presentation not necessarily the product itself.


jff

[Project]

And I maintain that there has never been shown a link between 'mind control' and music beyond the base stimulation of emotions... and perhaps making a subject more responsive to suggestion. BUT the music itself does not make that suggestion!

But there exists so much more out there that actually IS controlling us.... this topic of the 'evils of rock and roll' has been discussed widely in the mainstream media simply because it is not an avenue the elites use to control us, so it is the perfect cover for actual mind control... you say mind control to most people, and they immediately think of subliminal advertising, or back-masking, both of which have been shown not to work in the desired way, simply because they cannot predict what an image of coke will make you feel like... maybe you were beaten with a coke bottle at some point...

This is how disinfo works, get us talking about whether a plane hit the pentagon or not and we forget about caring who actually planned the attacks.

You see, I think this discussion is more about social control rather than mind control. How the artists were perhaps used as pawns by the forces of marketing and capitalism to further their agenda. How people were picked to be 'the next big thing'. This is very hard to dispute, but take a piece of music and play it for someone who does not know the cultural connotations, and the effect will not be the one desired in almost all cases I would say. The music loses its power when it is not tied to the social control structure. This is why I would say the control is not in the music, but in the music masters.

I thought this was interesting, although it is about visual stimuli and in advertising primarily:

Moore summarized his arguments against subliminal advertising along two lines of reasoning:

1. Subliminal stimuli are usually so weak that they are not perceived by observers, and even if they are, they are usually nullified by other, strong stimuli present at the same time.
2. People are very much in control of their own overt responses to stimuli, and hence, even if they perceive subliminal stimuli, they can screen out any attempts to effect undesired behavior.

Moore continued the discussion in terms of two possible kinds of subliminal influence which he labeled “strong effects” and “weak effects”. “Weak effects” are said to be influences on emotional responses such as attitudes or wishes while “strong effects” are considered actual manipulations of buyer behavior. Moore contended that “weak effects” are unlikely because the stimulus energy of a subliminal stimuli are embedded among many others. According to him, It is most improbable that a subliminal stimulus could compete successfully with other supraliminal sources of stimulation. That is why such carefully controlled conditions are necessary for obtaining the effects in the laboratory <16>. He also argued that “strong effects” are improbable because the control that individuals have over their own overt behavior prevents undesired actions.

(2) Saegert’s arguments

Saegert argued that Silverman’s psychodynamic activation theory provided a conceptual basis for how changes in behavior might result from subliminal stimulation. Silverman’s theory is derived from the Freudian notion that unconscious wishes can serve to activate feelings within an individual, and these feelings may lead to specific behaviors. An example of one of Silverman’s theories is the hypothesis that severe feelings of depression result from the suppression of unconscious aggression wishes which cannot be expressed overtly in a socially desirable manner. According to him, these wishes are susceptible to aggression-arousing stimuli which in turn lead to turning of unconscious aggression against the self, thus activating greater feelings of depression. Silverman offered support for this psychodynamic activation principle through tachistoscopic presentation of subliminal stimuli.

However, Saegert said that even though Silverman’s theory is useful in outlining a plausible model of subliminal influence, at the same time, especially in an advertising context, it points out the great difficulty that an advertiser would have in developing a practical program to take advantage of subliminal advertising techniques. That is, stimulus conditions Silverman’s theory specifies make it highly unlikely that successful use of subliminal messages could be achieved in a promotional context. These include the following: (a) the wish to be heightened by the subliminal stimulus must be unconscious, (b) the message must be subliminal, (c) to be effective, the presented stimulus must precisely match the unconscious wish in psychological meaning. In addition, the advertiser should be careful indeed to assure that the desired responses are expressible in a socially acceptable way <24>.

This illustrates my point that the overt mind control far outweighs the covert in basically all media, and while subliminal aids may be used to sway you in one direction or another, the actual suggestion must come from elsewhere, as the subliminal response is far too weak to interfere with even watered down overt signals; plus, it cannot inform specifically of its intentions, as the subconcious desire must exist in the first place, and the motivations behind that desire must match the desired course of action the manipulator intends.

We do use music as a means of control, or as a weapon system; ie: Saddam getting blasted by 'These Boots are Made for Walking' (I think it was)... now, was this song chosen for it's weaponized subliminal psychological value (against non-native english speakers ). or was the volume and incessant repetition the actual weapon?

I agree jff I read your post after I had constructed this monstrosity.

[Project]

The ruling about subliminal effects stated: "The scientific research presented does not establish that subliminal stimuli, even if perceived, may precipitate conduct of this magnitude. . . . [t]he strongest evidence presented at the trial showed no behavioral effects other than anxiety, distress or tension" (Vance v. Judas Priest 1990, 31).

From the Judas Priest trial.

Great piece tho http://www.csicop.org/si/9611/judas_priest.html

[fabzilla]

"I remember doing what they told me..."

Great post Project, I remember the trials very well and still fresh in my memories.

As was the hocus pocus "suicide solution" debacle.

Most bands that state they employ this tact do it for the sales it is amazing what a 'hidden track" will do to push the consumer to a product much like an "error" trading card, a manipulated gimmick and sales pitch.

All and all it is supplying a social avenue of control not a direct attack on the mind but a subliminal push to a category of devised socially engineered categories and sects "created' within this society to serve purpose for the self empowering gains of the few.

So to the general thesis of the thread, yes there is "mind control' in music but categorically it would be more on the social level than outright 'programming' IMHO of course.

Although assuredly there are cases that would be otherwise as there always is.

jff




An afterthought...


if Ed Dames does an acoustic version of "Blackbird' with George one night on C2C, disregard everything we have discussed here.


bwa ha ha ha hah ahahhh mu ha ha ha

LOL!

[Alpha]

Yes, great post Project and for the most part I agree.

The what, who and why seems to really be the quesion at a much higher altitude, not the where and who specifically has always been the question it seems...although those elements can't be discounted.

My counterpoint....an yeah...I'm not saying I either stand behind or support all that I posted is just to illustrate possibility....a focus on what is or could be rather than what is not.

IMHO "scientific" method leaves much to be desired....subjective, controlled, censored...limited to what we know, think we know, can understand or can pigeon hole in "third" dimensional thinking.

Understanding either the mind, the psyche, stimulus/response is and has been in the pioneer stages in the last few centuries...atleast the way we see and understand it, since the beginning of recorded time....if we beleive those accounts and records.

Ok...I know...I digress big time here.

However that said......perhaps, just perhaps that which seems innocuous, impossible on the surface...in plain sight as TW has sugggested, may just be the opposite and the ticket.....not just with this topic but with so many.

Is societal conditioning and "mind control" in that realm not just as significant, if not more so in the larger picture??.....after all...look at the target demographic and market with potential there....vs what we purists may or may not deem "actual mind control" in it's purest sense???

The "media" in all it's glory and veins is and has grown as a huge and tremendous tool/vehicle since the Industrial Revolution, the electronic age and "globalization".....no coincidence, me thinks.. ..and yeah...I think music, TV, the net and electronic media plays more than a significant role in that among many other approaches....but then...what do I know??

[Project]

Yes, I want a Mind Control in Media thread!

edit : hmm I had already started one a while back Well, sorta.... disinfo anyways.

[Alpha]

Yes, I want a Mind Control in Media thread!

Don't wanna arm wrestle you to start one

[nightcat]

Personally the "hip hop culture" to me is the agenda behind the music and not the music itself as it definitely reeks of social engineering and the evidence is all in the marketing.

Another spin off of Malcolm's swindle 101, works every time in music, always has and always will.

Spot on, jff!! An excellent observation.

Almost everyone in pop music marketing these days seems to have taken thier M.O. from Malcolm McLaren's Great Rock & Roll Swindle... too bad Malcolm couldn't copyright the actual methods and collect fees on that!

The IMAGE and LIFESTYLE are what companies are really selling.

As far as hot pop acts these days go, the music CDs are really only one small acouterment in the package. Many producers will tell you that it doesn't even matter if the music contained therein sucks major wads (and, in fact, sometimes it's better if it does as it becomes less intimidating to the young consumer, the idea being that "YOU TOO CAN BE JUST LIKE THIS FABULOUS POP STAR!!"), only that the music conform to specific sonic guidelines - it's more of an ambient background to a video and something to dance to than it is entertainment or art in its own right....

[Project]

Well, as I always say, if you get your entertainment from the mainstream delivery and maufacturing methods, you deserve everything that happens to you, and everything you lose.

There is a MASSIVE countercurrent of indie musicians who are the true talent of this land, they make the 'real' music industry look like amateurs as fas as musical talent goes, plus you get all the bullshot striiped away so you are left to get closer to the music and the artist.

Check out my post in the Tech World section by Frank Zappa on the future of music distribution systems... the intelligent and discerning have always known the system was broken, and GOD I HOPE IT DIES A PAINFUL DEATH.

If anyone needs help finding legal, independant music rather than that top40 'blood' music, feel free to contact me off thread.

[fabzilla]

You want to start a band?

LOL


I have the "itch" again especiallly with everything getting back to the roots of playing and not relying upon the mass marketing machine and the ultimate evil in the industry...

MTV...


"Give up, just quit, because in this life, you can't win.

Yeah, you can try, but in the end you're just gonna lose, big time, because the world is run by the Man.

The Man, oh, you don't know the Man. He's everywhere.

In the White House...

down the hall...

Ms. Mullins, she's the Man.

And the Man ruined the ozone, he's burning down the Amazon, and he kidnapped Shamu and put her in a chlorine tank!

And there used to be a way to stick it to the Man.

It was called rock 'n roll, but guess what, oh no, the Man ruined that, too, with a little thing called MTV!

So don't waste your time trying to make anything cool or pure or awesome 'cause the Man is just gonna call you a fat washed up loser and crush your soul.

So do yourselves a favor and just GIVE UP!"

Dewey Finn

Jack Black "School of Rock"

[Project]

I would like to have a band of geographically remote people... one person lays down a track, someone else adds to it and reuploads it.... an open source collaborative composition... The more people who get involved in taking music back for themselves, the better it is for music in general.

There is currently no better place for free legal, and may I say ASTOUNDING music than http://www.archive.org/audio/etree.php if you want a new and very cool experience, check out Keller Williams, anything by him.

[nightcat]

Well, as I always say, if you get your entertainment from the mainstream delivery and maufacturing methods, you deserve everything that happens to you, and everything you lose.

That's absolutely correct... they've got scads o' people staying up nights plotting new ways to separate you from your money and individuality in return for a pile o' their poo.

They even try to dupe consumers into thinking they're buying indie - the big three have, under their business umbrellas, countless fakey indie-sounding/looking label names (sometimes these were once legit indies which were snatched up by the corporations and sometimes they're just invented names) and you must squint at the fine print to discern the link to Sony, Warners or BMG.

Clear Channel plays into the control of what music becomes popular to a huge degree -- have you ever heard a true indie record played on a CC - owned frequency? Nope. You haven't and you won't. They've got a "you scratch mine, I'll scratch yours" deal with the major corporations. The companies decide which artists they'll promote and which will be write-offs then CC does the dirty deed of telling you that you, in fact, like it. Once upon a time, the way you promoted a record was by taking it to radio stations and convincing a DJ (yes, there was a time when DJs were autonomous) to spin it and ask for audience input. Not no mo'. If the big dudes at Sony don't slip it to Clear Channel and Viacom with instructions to "make it a hit", chances are slim to nil that it'll ever be one.

Indeed, these days the most inspired and passionate artists, the artists who still care about blazing new trails and making music with teeth (and balls) are outside of the mainstream on indie labels. A little bit harder to find but that's half the fun, innit?