Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 29

Thread: Karma

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    North of Midnight on Planet Wingnut
    Posts
    83,939

    Karma

    I have always loved this subject, so I thought I'd share what I consider to be a good summary and intro.....

    Karma





    Karma is the concept of "action" or "deed" in Dharmic religions understood as denoting the entire cycle of cause and effect described in Hindu, Jain, Sikh and Buddhist philosophies. Karma is about responsibility. It is a link between two or more souls from one or more lifetimes.



    A karmic debt is something you supposedly owe another person, or they owe you form another time line. As all is parallel, the matter of karma, the wheel of karma, are soul connections in parallel realities. Now we get caught up in the games of emotions, family and friends and what are called soul groups who plays in different realities/games together as friends and lovers, soul mates. Here we find things owed and games played out that even we can not often make sense of.


    The explanation of karma can differ per tradition. Usually it is believed to be a sum of all that an individual has done, is currently doing and will do. The results or "fruits" of actions are called karma-phala. Karma is not about retribution, vengeance, punishment or reward; karma simply deals with what is. The effects of all deeds actively create past, present and future experiences, thus making one responsible for one's own life, and the pain and joy it brings to others. In religions that incorporate reincarnation, karma extends through one's present life and all past and future lives as well. It is cumulative.


    Throughout this process, many believe God plays some kind of role, for example, as the dispenser of the fruits of karma. Other Hindus consider the natural laws of causation sufficient to explain the effects of karma.Another view holds that a Sadguru, acting on God's behalf, can mitigate or work out some of the karma of the disciple.



    Law of Karma The "Law of Karma" is central in Dharmic religions. All living creatures are responsible for their karma, their actions and the effects of their actions, and for their release from samsara. The concept can be traced back to the early Upanishads. The esoteric Christian tradition, Essenian and later Rosicrucian schools teach it as the "Law of Cause and Consequence/Effect" However, this western esoteric tradition adds that the essence of the teachings of Christ is that the law of sin and death may be overcome by Love, which will restore immortality.


    Actions do not create karma (good or bad) when performed by an individual in the state of Moksha or liberation. Such a person is called "Stithaprajna". The monist, Adi Sankara taught "Akarmaiva Moksha," which means "Moksha can be attained only by doing, not by a process of effort". All actions performed by one in the state of Moksha are called Dharma.


    Hindus believe that everything in the Universe is in a state of creation, maintenance or destruction. Similarly, the mind creates a thought, maintains (follows) it for some time and the thought ultimately dies down (perhaps to be replaced by another thought).


    In addition to the three states of consciousness, Hinduism puts forward a fourth state of being called Turiya or pure consciousness, where the mind is not engaged in thinking but just observes the thoughts.



    Actions in the Turiya state do not create karma. Meditation is a practice aimed at giving individuals the experience of being in this objective state. An individual who is constantly in the turiya state is said to have attained moksha where their actions happen as a response to events (and not because of thought process); such actions do not result in accumulation of karma as they have no karmic effect.


    The process of release (moksha) from ego-consciousness (ahamkar) with its inherent karma can be compared with the doctrine of salvation in mainstream Christianity: Grace given by faith in the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus.

    In the Dharmic Religions


    Karma in Hinduism

    One of the first and most dramatic illustrations of karma can be found in the epic Mahabharata. In this poem, Arjuna the protagonist is preparing for battle when he realizes that the enemy consists of members of his own family and decides not to fight. His charioteer, Krishna - one of the incarnations of God (Vishnu) - explains to Arjuna the concept of "duty" among other things and makes him see that it is his duty to fight.


    The whole of the Bhagavad Gita within the Mahabharata, is a dialogue between these two on aspects of life including morality and a host of other philosophical themes. The original Hindu concept of karma was later enhanced by several other movements within the religion, most notably Vedanta, and Tantra.


    Karma literally means "deed" or "act" and more broadly names the universal principle of cause and effect, action and reaction that governs all life. Karma is not fate, for man acts with free will creating his own destiny. According to the Vedas, if we sow goodness, we will reap goodness; if we sow evil, we will reap evil. Karma refers to the totality of our actions and their concomitant reactions in this and previous lives, all of which determines our future. The conquest of karma lies in intelligent action and dispassionate response.


    Karma is considered to be a spiritually originated law. Many Hindus see God's direct involvement in this process, while others consider the natural laws of causation sufficient to explain the effects of karma.
    Karma is not punishment or retribution, but simply an extended expression or consequences, of natural acts.



    The effects experienced are also able to be mitigated by actions and are not necessarily fated. That is to say, a particular action now is not binding to some particular, pre-determined future experience or reaction; it is not a simple, one-to-one correspondence of reward or punishment.


    Hindu scriptures divide karma into three kinds: Sanchita (accumulated), Prarabdha (fruit-bearing) and Kriyamana (current) karma. All kriyamana karmas become sanchita karma upon completion.



    From this stock of sanchita karma, a handful is taken out to serve one lifetime and this handful of actions, which has begun to bear fruit and which will be exhausted only on their fruit being enjoyed and not otherwise, is known as prarabdha karma. In this way, so long as the stock of sanchita karma lasts, a part of it continues to be taken out as prarabdha karma for being enjoyed in one lifetime, leading to the cycle of birth and death. A jiva cannot attain moksha until the accumulated sanchita karmas are completely exhausted.



    Karma in Buddhism

    In Buddhism, karma (Pali kamma) is strictly distinguished from vipaka, meaning "fruit" or "result". Karma is categorized within the group or groups of cause (Pali hetu) in the chain of cause and effect, where it comprises the elements of "volitional activities" (Pali sankhara) and "action" (Pali bhava).



    Any action is understood to create "seeds" in the mind that will sprout into the appropriate result (Pali vipaka) when they meet with the right conditions. Most types of karmas, with good or bad results, will keep one within the wheel of samsara; others will liberate one to nirvana.


    Buddhism relates karma directly to motives behind an action. Motivation usually makes the difference between "good" and "bad", but included in the motivation is also the aspect of ignorance; so a well-intended action from a deluded mind can easily be "bad" in the sense that it creates unpleasant results for the "actor".


    In Buddhism, karma is not the only cause of anything that happens. The following are the five "Niyama Dharma" that cause effects.
    • Karma Niyama - Consequences of one's actions
    • Dhamma Niyama - Laws of nature
    • Irthu Niyama - Seasonal changes and climate
    • Biija Niyama - Genetic inheritance
    • Chitta Niyama - Will of mind
    The last four cover "conditions" or "circumstances" in which karmic potential can ripen as result.


    Karma in Jainism

    Karma in Jainism conveys a totally different meaning as commonly understood in the Hindu philosophy and western civilization.


    In Jainism, karma is referred to as karmic dirt, as it consists of very subtle and microscopic particles i.e. pudgala that pervade the entire universe. Karmas are attracted to the karmic field of a soul on account of vibrations created by activities of mind, speech and body as well as on account of various mental dispositions.



    Hence the karmas are the subtle matter surrounding the consciousness of a soul. When these two components i.e. consciousness and karma interact, we experience the life as we know it at present. Herman Kuhn quoting from Tattvarthasutra describes karmas as * a mechanism that makes us thoroughly experience the themes of our life until we gained optimal knowledge from them and until our emotional attachment to these themes falls off.


    According to Padmanabh Jaini "this emphasis on reaping the fruits only of onešs own karma was not restricted to the Jainas; both Hindus and Buddhist writers have produced doctrinal materials stressing the same point.



    Each of the latter traditions, however, developed practices in basic contradiction to such belief. In addition to shrardha (the ritual Hindu offerings by the son of deceased), we find among Hindu s widespread adherence to the notion of divine intervention in ones fate, while Buddhists eventually came to propound such theories like boon-granting bodhisattvas, transfer of merit and like.



    Only Jainas have been absolutely unwilling to allow such ideas to penetrate their community, despite the fact that there must have been tremendous amount of social pressure on them to do so."
    The key points where the theory of Karma in Jainism differs from the other religions, could be stated as follows:
    • Karma in Jainism operates as a self-sustaining mechanism as natural universal law, without any need of an external entity to manage them. (absence of the exogenous "Divine Entity" in Jainism)
    • Jainism advocates that a soul's karma changes even with the thoughts, and not just the actions. Thus, to even think evil of someone would endure a "karm-bandh" or an increment in bad karma. It is for this reason, that Jainism gives a very strong emphasis on "samyak dhyan" (Rationality in thoughts) and "samyak darshan" (Rationality in perception) and not just "samyak charitra" (rationality in conduct).
    • Under Jain theology, a soul is released of worldly affairs as soon as it is able to emanicipate from the "karm-bandh". A famous illustration is that of Mata Marudevi, the mother of Shri Rishabh Dev, the first Tirthankar of present time cycle, who reached such emanicipation by elevating sequentially her thought processes, while she was visiting her Tirthankar son. This illustration explains how "Nirvana" and "Moksha" are different in Jainism, from other religions. In the presence of a Tirthankar, another soul achieved Keval Gyan and subsequently Nirvana, without any need of intervention by the Tirthankar.
    • The karmic theory in Jainism operates endogenously. Tirthankars are not attributed "godhood" under Jainism. Thus, even the tirthankars themselves have to go through the stages of emanicipation, for attaining that state. While Buddhism does give a similar and to some extent a matching account for Shri Gautama Buddha, Hinduism maintains a totally different theory where "divine grace" is needed for emanicipation.
    • Jainism treats all souls equally, in as much as it advocates that all souls have the same potential of attaining "nirvana". Only those who make effort, really attain it, but nonetheless, each soul is capable on its own to do so by gradually reducing its karma.
    Analogs of Karma

    If we accept the basic ethical purpose of karma is to behave responsibly, and the tenet of karma is essentially "if you do good things, good things will happen to you - if you do bad things, bad things will happen to you," then it is possible to identify analogs with other religions that do not rely on karma as a metaphysical assertion or doctrine.


    Karma does not specifically concern itself with salvation as it implies a basic socio-ethical dynamic. As a mechanism, karma in Hinduism is judge of one's actions, much as the concept of God as judge is in relation to "good works" in western religions.


    Similarly, the Egyptian goddess Ma'at (the divine judge) played a similar and impartial role meting out justice in a manner very similar to karma; Ma'at could not be appeased by faith or regret - an action done was done, with no space for the more recent theistic concept of grace.


    Parallels may also be found in the Greek goddess Ananke (Necessity, Inevitability, or Compulsion), who was the mother of the Moirae (Fates) and dealt out one's "heimarmene" (allotted portion) strictly according to one's actions both in this life and in previous incarnations, and in Germanic Wyrd.
    The Apostle Paul similarly states: "man reaps what he sows"



    Western Interpretation

    An academic and religious definition was mentioned above. Millions of people believe in karma and it is a part of many cultures and the psyches of millions of people. Others without religious backgrounds, especially in western cultures or with Christian upbringings, become convinced of the existence of karma.



    For some, karma is a more reasonable concept than eternal damnation for the wicked. Spirituality or a belief that virtue is rewarded and sin creates suffering might lead to a belief in karma.


    According to karma, performing positive actions results in a good condition in one's experience, whereas a negative action results in a bad effect. The effects may be seen immediately or delayed. Delay can be until later in the present life or in the next. Thus, meritorious acts may mean rebirth into a higher station, such as a superior human or a godlike being, while evil acts result in rebirth as a human living in less desirable circumstances, or as a lower animal.


    Some observers have compared the action of karma to Western notions of sin and judgment by God or gods, while others understand karma as an inherent principle of the universe without the intervention of any supernatural Being.


    In Hinduism, God does play a role and is seen as a dispenser of karma; see Karma in Hinduism for more details. The latter understanding, without intervention is the view of Buddhism and Jainism.


    Most teachings say that for common mortals, being involved with karma is an unavoidable part of daily living.



    However, in light of the Hindu philosophical school of Vedanta, as well as Gautama Buddha's teachings, one is advised to either avoid, control or become mindful of the effects of desires and aversions as a way to moderate or change one's karma (or, more accurately, one's karmic results or destiny).



    Spiritism

    In Spiritism, karma known as "the law of cause and effect", plays a central role in determining how one's life needs to be. Spirits are encouraged to choose how (and when) to suffer retribution for the wrong they did in previous lives. Disabilities, physical or mental impairment or even an unlucky life are due to the choices a spirit makes before incarnating (that is, before being born to a new life).


    What sets Spiritism apart from the more traditional religious views is that it understands karma as a condition inherent to the spirit, whether incarnated or not: the consequences of the crimes committed by the spirit last beyond the physical life and cause him (moral) pain in the afterlife. The choice of a life of hardships is, therefore, a way to get rid of the pain caused by moral guilt and to perfect qualities that are necessary for the spirit to progress to a higher form.


    Because Spiritism always accepted the plurality of inhabited worlds, its concept of karma became considerably complex. There are worlds that are "primitive" (in the sense that they are home to spirits newly born and still very low on intellect and morals) and a succession of more and more advanced worlds to where spirits move as they are elevated. A spirit may choose to be born on a world inferior to his own as a penance or as a mission.



    New Age and Theosophy

    The idea of karma was popularized in the Western world through the work of the Theosophical Society.

    Kardecist and Western New Age reinterpretations of karma frequently cast it as a sort of luck associated with virtue: if one does good or spiritually valuable acts, one deserves and can expect good luck; conversely, if one does harmful things, one can expect bad luck or unfortunate happenings.


    In this conception, karma is affiliated with the Neopagan law of return or Threefold Law, the idea that the beneficial or harmful effects one has on the world will return to oneself. Colloquially this may be summed up as 'what goes around comes around.


    There is also the metaphysical idea that, because karma is a force of nature and not a sentient creature capable of making value judgments, karma isn't about good and evil deeds, because applying those labels would be judgmental, but that it is about positive and negative energy, where negative energy can include things not seen as "being bad" like sadness and fear, and positive energy can be caused by being creative and solving problems as well as by exuding love and doing virtuous acts.


    It is referred to as "omniverse karma" or "omni-karma" because it requires the existence of an omniverse, that space that contains all possible universes. The omniverse idea includes concepts such as souls, psychic energy, synchronicity (a concept originally from psychoanalyst Carl Jung, which says that things that happen at the same time are related), and ideas from quantum or theoretical physics.


    Reference:
    Karma



    Do unto Others as you would have them do unto you



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Not here!
    Posts
    14,403
    I'm old enough now and have experienced enough by now and have done enough experimenting to have realized that there certainly appears to be something going on in reality that certainly fits the description of karma.

    There is no secret or deed or even a single thought that we commit and are responsible for that the universe is not aware of. Everything eventually balances out. Mathematically and theoretically, it MUST!

  3. #3
    Judee's Avatar
    Judee is offline LOOK UP! IT'S ALL ABOUT THE SUN!
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    30,913
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinorumus View Post
    There is no secret or deed or even a single thought that we commit and are responsible for that the universe is not aware of. Everything eventually balances out. Mathematically and theoretically, it MUST!

    So true Div. Also, live negatively, and negative things will happen to you. Like attracts like. Open up and let love and light in, and good things will come your way. One of the reasons society is so easy to control is that our handlers have learned to keep us in a negative cycle. It isn't easy, but a simple change of 'mindset' can break the dark cycles in our lives. We can be controlled on many levels, but our souls are totally ours and can never be taken away. What we do with our souls and how we evolve or not, is entirely up to us.

    Thanks for this thread Alpha.
    "Happiness can only come from inside of you and is the result of your love. When you are aware that no one else can make you happy, and that happiness is the result of your love, this becomes the greatest mastery of the Toltecs: the Mastery of Love." ~~don Miguel Ruiz~~

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    4,242
    I like this topic, but that post was so long I couldn't grasp it. I am a Hindu, so I can tell you very briefly what I believe:

    Everything that happens to you or you experience is karma. The food you eat is a result of your karma. The TV shows you see, your friends and family, the house you live in etc. Karma is not only bad experiences, but also pleasure and joy. Everything is karma. Karma is not bad, it is just experience. It is what makes the world appear. Without karma, you would see yourself as god in the center of the universe with nothing to do.

    Karma makes 'the dream' appear. And, you cannot change your karma or avoid it. You must experience the sex, the pleasure and the grief that is coming your way. You can avoid some of it by will power, but you must eventually partake.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Not here!
    Posts
    14,403
    Quote Originally Posted by Judee View Post
    What we do with our souls and how we evolve or not, is entirely up to us.
    Yes, and yet no too. Others may stand in our way, or even try to stop us and our pursuits. Yes, we are free to choose path A or B, but choices C and D or Q or Z are being kept from us ~ because we are no longer free, or maybe we lost a leg, whatever . . ..But our choices will be limited when the individual will is superceded and replaced by the will of the socialist dictator(s). On that day, smash will replace karma. This planet is soaked and drowning in bad karma as a result of the behavior of the human collective, and a big ugly is coming to fix and set things right again. For every action expect an equal reaction. For every 1 there is a -1. Karma seems to apply to all things.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Corner of walk & don't walk
    Posts
    8,329
    Karma works, shit happens. What they say about doing good and good comes to you is true, as well as when you do bad it comes back on you. Something within this universe is like Santa Claus. It knows when you have been naughty or nice.

    Karma, to me, is the gift given that shows that the right way is in love, understanding, helping others, and looking out for your neighbor.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    North of Midnight on Planet Wingnut
    Posts
    83,939
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinorumus View Post
    I'm old enough now and have experienced enough by now and have done enough experimenting to have realized that there certainly appears to be something going on in reality that certainly fits the description of karma.

    There is no secret or deed or even a single thought that we commit and are responsible for that the universe is not aware of. Everything eventually balances out. Mathematically and theoretically, it MUST!
    I would have to agree with you on this one Div....or at best it's my best current theory.

    What I struggle with is why, atleast in this dimension, do we see so many humans create bad karma, with little consequence and vice versa, so many good souls who try, give yet receive little in return. I'm not talking about material rewards...I'm referring to a smile, a helping hand when it is needed.

    Is it karmic debt or overabundance in the "karmic" bank account that explains it...or what is it? Is it an internal peace that we wait for in others, yet is truly found withing ourselves?....something else? Realizing that this is not specific to a particular incarnation in any karmic cycle, if indeed there is such a thing...I'd love to read some of all of your other thoughts, experiences and theories on this topic. ...or perhaps Karma and the concept doesn't exist at all.

    What do you all think?

    Do unto Others as you would have them do unto you



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Not here!
    Posts
    14,403
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    What I struggle with is why, atleast in this dimension, do we see so many humans create bad karma, with little consequence and vice versa, so many good souls who try, give yet receive little in return. I'm not talking about material rewards...I'm referring to a smile, a helping hand when it is needed.
    You know those little children that live in 3rd world nations in sewage and are disease riddled and starving to death? Those may be them that were creeps in a previous life. Of course that's not to say we should allow them to wallow in such misery and filth until they die. I do believe it all ultimately balances out, yet maybe not within each individual life.If it worked that way, people would likely do good deeds today simply to win the lottery tomorrow. I do believe karma balance sheets carry over into subsequent reincarnated lives.

  9. #9
    Judee's Avatar
    Judee is offline LOOK UP! IT'S ALL ABOUT THE SUN!
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    30,913
    Nemo put it best when he said: "Everything is karma. Karma is not bad, it is just experience." Some people get locked into the physical, and mistakenly equate power, money, position, control, etc. as fulfilling. Once a person understands and truly believes that the physical is not what we are, but rather that we are infinite beings of the Universe, who have been given free will; then the material things of the physical become less important. Karma is only a physical thing. In the spiritual, there is no judgement, no punishment, no condemnation - only free will. When one gives of one's self to others, the reward comes in the joy of giving, and the powerful energy that is returned in the form of that someone else's joy. If one gives themselves to someone or does something, and it isn't received in a positive way, the negative reaction of the situation shouldn't be perceived as 'bad karma'. Again, it is the positive experience of giving that is the important thing. If I give myself to someone else in whatever way, and it isn't well received, or even causes anger, then it's isn't easy to not feel hurt. If I truly gave with sincere and honest intentions, and not out of cockiness, ego, or self-gratification; then I try my best to remember that the choice to be negative was the others persons decision.

    In today's world of an over-abundance of negativity, it is becoming increasingly difficult to walk in the positive. I sometimes find myself going on a guilt trip over something, or asking myself why, why, why did this happen to me? Like why did the chipmunk chew up the wiring in my truck last week, causing me great problems both physically and financially? What did I do to deserve that? I then have to kick myself and answer honestly... I fed them, therefore creating the situation which caused them to make a nice comfortable home under my hood, close to the food source I had provided.

    I had a much better response to this thread, and accidently hit something that caused the page to change. I couldn't find my unsubmitted reply. Hmm... wonder what I did to deserve that?
    "Happiness can only come from inside of you and is the result of your love. When you are aware that no one else can make you happy, and that happiness is the result of your love, this becomes the greatest mastery of the Toltecs: the Mastery of Love." ~~don Miguel Ruiz~~

  10. #10
    Judee's Avatar
    Judee is offline LOOK UP! IT'S ALL ABOUT THE SUN!
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    30,913
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinorumus View Post
    I do believe karma balance sheets carry over into subsequent reincarnated lives.
    Absolutely Div! I believe that also! Which is why life can feel so darn unfair and horrible at times. We're all travelling together on this little planet, and we're all learning together. When we all learn to live in positive energy, then those starving children will cease to exist.
    "Happiness can only come from inside of you and is the result of your love. When you are aware that no one else can make you happy, and that happiness is the result of your love, this becomes the greatest mastery of the Toltecs: the Mastery of Love." ~~don Miguel Ruiz~~

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    574
    We're all one. Lots of people/spiritualities/religions/ideologies/whatever believe that. And so we experience it all. Sometimes we're the victim, sometimes we're the persecuter. Sometimes it feels like karma and s/he's (or I'm) just getting what they deserved. And sometimes we see that 'the other' is us. So we keep having these experiences until we see it's all the same. and we're all the same. and we forgive. not for them - but for ourselves. which is them.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Not here!
    Posts
    14,403
    Quote Originally Posted by sunshine View Post
    And so we experience it all.
    Gee, I've said that so many times myself. It even concurs with what I said at the bottom of my last post where I said:

    I might even go so far as to suspect there is only ONE of us, god if you prefer, and this ONE injects themselves into this matrix as the many that are you and me and everyone else. Thus the saying do unto others as you wish done unto you. If you kick a dog in this life, you'll be that kicked dog in another life.

  13. #13
    Judee's Avatar
    Judee is offline LOOK UP! IT'S ALL ABOUT THE SUN!
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    30,913
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinorumus View Post
    I might even go so far as to suspect there is only ONE of us, god if you prefer,

    Take a look at my new signature Div. It say what I truly believe!
    "Happiness can only come from inside of you and is the result of your love. When you are aware that no one else can make you happy, and that happiness is the result of your love, this becomes the greatest mastery of the Toltecs: the Mastery of Love." ~~don Miguel Ruiz~~

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •