Did Lies Take Us to War?

[Mcnowhere]

You're absolutely right Mcno. Change does have to begin somewhere. I just wonder if, as you said, 'the right' person would ever have a chance at being elected, and if they were elected, would those unseen faces behind the scenes ensure that everything stayed 'business as usual'? Look at this upcoming election. The 'good guys' were quickly flung out of the race weren't they? And what are we left with? The same old cretins!

There may be one good one left, one who doesn't wear a "pant suit".

[Project]

So, is the US officially at war with anything but the vague word 'terror'? Don't think so, and thus all arguments about the process of law and the senate and bla bla is all moot. The lie is right there, US citizens dying for a no-war.

Whatever else you think, this is an illegal occupation, guantanamo is illegal, torture is illegal and immoral (and will bite you right back on the ass), the people being attacked have nothing to do with any sort of threat WHATSOEVER to US citizens, and if any of you can prove me wrong I will eat my hat on youtube

I can see however just from this thread the media and PTB have sucked alot of people in the vacuum of talking points and ugly attack politics. All politicians that get into high levels of power are evil, we choose them for this quality. All acts of violence against non-aggressors is wrong. One innocent person dying for a non-proven or justified cause is wrong. Spending money on a non-war is wrong.

The question is if politicians lied to achieve their goals? DUH!

GONZALES: There was not a war declaration, either in connection with Al Qaida or in Iraq. It was an authorization to use military force. I only want to clarify that, because there are implications. Obviously, when you talk about a war declaration, you're possibly talking about affecting treaties, diplomatic relations. And so there is a distinction in law and in practice. And we're not talking about a war declaration. This is an authorization only to use military force.

but bombing does not have diplomatic repercussions? What a tangled web we weave when we first practice to deceive!

A declaration of war is a formal declaration issued by a national government indicating that a state of war exists between that nation, and one or more others. For the United States, Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution says "Congress shall have power to ... declare War," however, that passage provides no specific format for what form legislation text must have to be considered a "Declaration of War" nor does the Constitution itself use this term. Many have postulated "Declaration(s) of War" must contain that phrase as or within the title. Many oppose that reasoning. The postulate has not been tested in court; however, this article will use the term "formal Declaration of War" to mean Congressional legislation that uses the phrase "Declaration of War" in the title.
Despite the constitutional requirement that Congress declare war, in practice, formal Declarations of War have occurred only upon prior request by the President.
After World War II, Congress voluntarily limited its use of the power to declare war to issuing authorizations of force. The War Powers Resolution of 1973 (Pub.L. 93-148) limits the power of the President to wage war without the approval of the Congress. The United States of America has formally declared war against foreign nations five separate times.

So, like, whatever. You certainly cannot hide behind constitutional issues to defend attacking peaceful nations.

[Judee]

Whatever else you think, this is an illegal occupation, guantanamo is illegal, torture is illegal and immoral (and will bite you right back on the ass), the people being attacked have nothing to do with any sort of threat WHATSOEVER to US citizens, and if any of you can prove me wrong I will eat my hat on youtube

I can see however just from this thread the media and PTB have sucked alot of people in the vacuum of talking points and ugly attack politics. All politicians that get into high levels of power are evil, we choose them for this quality. All acts of violence against non-aggressors is wrong. One innocent person dying for a non-proven or justified cause is wrong. Spending money on a non-war is wrong.

The question is if politicians lied to achieve their goals? DUH!



but bombing does not have diplomatic repercussions? What a tangled web we weave when we first practice to deceive!

So, like, whatever. You certainly cannot hide behind constitutional issues to defend attacking peaceful nations.

Well put Project.

[Alpha]

Well put Project.

I second Judee's emotion ....very well said P.

The question is if politicians lied to achieve their goals? DUH!

They have all lied, cheated, promised and not delivered, blown smoke up everyone's petootie....atleast those who believed the smoke, no matter what party, side, they belong to....just look at ALL of their track records, what they have voted on, or haven't even bothered reading, yet signed anyway etc, etc, etc.....

Those who still want to play Red against Blue and think it will make a difference.....go for it and enjoy.....or I wouldn't care if it was Pink against purple.

Is it all about who's on the screen of Oz?....don't we want to know who the "Wizard/s" is/are???

[Mcnowhere]

Is it all about who's on the screen of Oz?....don't we want to know who the "Wizard/s" is/are???

I agree with you Alpha and I understand your frustration. There are the secret wizards that are arbitrarily running the show. I too would love to know who "they" really are and how they do the real business. Having said that though, if everybody just threw their hands up in the air, gave up their right to vote, and paid no attention to what is happening because they didn't think they had any power at all, how would anything progress? If we don't stay engaged, read the net, read the editorials, and educate ourselves on our options, what chance do we have of overcoming any of it? As a Canuck obviously I have no say but I will remain intently interested as to what happens in the U.S. because as we know, it affects us all. No past government in the U.S. has reeked as much havoc as this current one has. Is it really futile to hope that the next one, no matter which side of the fence they hail from, will improve things and undo some of the damage? The best form of advertising is "word of mouth".

[Alpha]

I agree with you Alpha and I understand your frustration. There are the secret wizards that are arbitrarily running the show. I too would love to know who "they" really are and how they do the real business. Having said that though, if everybody just threw their hands up in the air, gave up their right to vote, and paid no attention to what is happening because they didn't think they had any power at all, how would anything progress? If we don't stay engaged, read the net, read the editorials, and educate ourselves on our options, what chance do we have of overcoming any of it? As a Canuck obviously I have no say but I will remain intently interested as to what happens in the U.S. because as we know, it affects us all. No past government in the U.S. has reeked as much havoc as this current one has. Is it really futile to hope that the next one, no matter which side of the fence they hail from, will improve things and undo some of the damage? The best form of advertising is "word of mouth".

McNo......I am all for knowledge as I'm a firm believer that knowledge is power. It is with information , knowledge that we keep engaged, provided we are really attempting to find the truth from a holistic 360 perspective....without preconceived ideals and paradigms.

I have never advocated giving up the right to vote, however that said, the system is so skewed that it is totally meaningless on many fronts.

As one example, they control who is on the ballot. What if one wants to vote for an independent who doesn't make it through the complex, expensive superbowl extravaganza ?... either here or in the US.

Sadly I feel it will take radical change to move this corrupt and entrenched dinosaur.

For the last few elections I have gone and officially rejected my ballot as a form of protest as there was no-one I wanted to support.

What would happen if more did the same or perhaps just did not vote at all in protest? What would the power brokers do then to spin their illusion of "democracy"...no votes to tamper with, no preselected candidates to carry on the agenda?

I know it would take a miracle to have this happen, however an outright mutiny of the current corrupt system is the only way I think we can ever stop this....

[Mcnowhere]

McNo......I am all for knowledge as I'm a firm believer that knowledge is power. It is with information , knowledge that we keep engaged, provided we are really attempting to find the truth from a holistic 360 perspective....without preconceived ideals and paradigms.

I have never advocated giving up the right to vote, however that said, the system is so skewed that it is totally meaningless on many fronts.

As one example, they control who is on the ballot. What if one wants to vote for an independent who doesn't make it through the complex, expensive superbowl extravaganza ?... either here or in the US.

Sadly I feel it will take radical change to move this corrupt and entrenched dinosaur.

For the last few elections I have gone and officially rejected my ballot as a form of protest as there was no-one I wanted to support.

What would happen if more did the same or perhaps just did not vote at all in protest? What would the power brokers do then to spin their illusion of "democracy"...no votes to tamper with, no preselected candidates to carry on the agenda?

I know it would take a miracle to have this happen, however an outright mutiny of the current corrupt system is the only way I think we can ever stop this....

You've lost me...not because I disagree with you but because I am not comprehending how giving up a democratic right "en masse" would have a positive outcome. Would they not rub their hands in glee at the prospect of having the power handed to them on a silver platter to appoint whoever they liked? The Supreme Court gave the U.S. Bush. Currently, the so called Democratic Super Delegate Committee may make the decision between Obama and Clinton. This could ultimately mean they have yet again, appointed a President. We know the PTB love this stuff! Perhaps I haven't thought out far are enough ahead on your strategy.

[Alpha]

You've lost me...not because I disagree with you but because I am not comprehending how giving up a democratic right "en masse" would have a positive outcome. Would they not rub their hands in glee at the prospect of having the power handed to them on a silver platter to appoint whoever they liked? The Supreme Court gave the U.S. Bush. Currently, the so called Democratic Super Delegate Committee may make the decision between Obama and Clinton. This could ultimately mean they have yet again, appointed a President. We know the PTB love this stuff! Perhaps I haven't thought out far are enough ahead on your strategy.

I am assuming that some quorum turn out by the populace is required to call a "fair election" McNo, however that is only an assumption.

As far as I know, it is not legislated that one vote except for a few countries we have heard about that all must vote and only for the one candidate that is running...however I digress

Would less than 50 % of the eligible electorate...or much, much less counting down to 0 %, not be deemed "not representative" or "void"?

If I had more time today, I'd do some digging...perhaps someone here can enlighten us on any quorum rules pertinent to the electorate, elections and the what happens if that quorum is not realized....guess there are always those Diebold machines and phony paper ballots on hand to ensure that this never happens.

As your previous post stated, yes...I am frustrated at both what is being done to us and also those that still play this ridiculous game, albeit, these are just my thoughts and opinions.

I'd like to throw this out there...we have many very well read and intelligent folks here.

What do we do...what is the answer when the seeming "choices we have" are really not that at all???

How do we change this without playing the existing smoke and mirrors game?

[VOguy]

I think everyone has their own way of dealing with this issue, Alpha. It can be anywhere from accepting/ignoring it, to outright warfare against those who are responsible.

But I am reminded of an old French story from World War II about a town being the surrounded on three sides by opposing enemy. The Germans had two sides, one on the north, and one on the south. The US the third to the west. It was just a matter of time before their town would become ground zero for warfare. The citizens were trapped. They knew that the US would not torch them, but the Germans would. Elders of the village came up with a plan.

They took two dead German soldiers, and put the dog tags and wallet of Americans on the bodes. Then one farmer took a body north to meet the Germans, and another farmer took a body south to the other Germans. Their story was the same. "The U.S. soldiers had broken through the city, and killed a lot of Germans. They are on the east side of the city, and they are planning on attacking you. You can have anything you want if you will get rid of the damn Americans."

Both German groups took the bait, and immediately started toward each other. Whereupon seeing each other, opened up with heavy gunfire, and being equally supplied, caused massive casualties on both sides.

While this had been going on, another farmer had met the Americans, who flew through the city and into the end of the battle, where they then wiped out, or forced retreat on the remaining German groups. The town was saved, and no local blood was spilled.


Alpha, the moral of the story is that we don't need to be openly hostile in subverting evil as long as we use our heads. There is much we can do, including spreading the word about evil, but doing it in a sane and calm manor. I've found that the best medicine is to show people what is going on, then ask them if they honestly feel this is right. If your candidate did this, how would you feel? If we do this to other, is it OK for the enemy to do this to our kids and family? Ask the questions, and let people think about it.

I can't emphasize more the sane and calm part. As soon as someone starts acting like Rambo, the other side can easily discredit and label them as a wacko. It's easier to change someone when you plan the seeds and let the human conscience come to the conclusion. Most people will make the correct deduction when presented with the facts and reason. More people are starting to understand what is going on. We, as teachers, need to reinforce what is right and show those on the fence that there is a right way to live.

[Alpha]

Well here you go....

Man Who Lied About WMDs to Justify Iraq War Confesses


10th April 2012By Madison Ruppert
Contributing Writer for Wake Up World



The individual codenamed “Curveball,” who lied about Saddam Hussein having Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs), has now come clean on British television.

Curveball, who is actually Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi, helped fabricate the justification for war which resulted in countless Iraqi deaths, as well as the deaths of coalition soldiers, and the loss of immense sums of money.

Al-Janabi doesn’t seem too torn up about what his lies led to, either, as he actually had the gall to smile while confirming that everything was completely made up.

However, al-Janabi attempts (and poorly, I might add) to defend his actions.



“My main purpose was to topple the tyrant in Iraq because the longer this dictator remains in power, the more the Iraqi people will suffer from this regime’s oppression,” he said.

It’s sad that al-Janabi did not have the humanity to think about all of the people who have suffered since he lied to the world.

Al-Janabi was a chemical engineer and claimed that he was the overseer of the building of a mobile biological weapons laboratory.

He made this up when he sought political asylum in Germany way back in 1999 and later his fictions were jumped on by American officials.

He said that his lies were presented as “facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence” by the U.S. Secretary of State at the time, Colin Powell, when he made the case for war before the United Nations Security Council in February of 2003.

In his interview on the BBC2 show Modern Spies, he showed an appalling lack of care about what he did.

“We went to war in Iraq [based] on a lie. And that lie was your lie,” the interviewer said, to which he replied simply, “Yes.”

Colin Powell’s former chief of Staff, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, admits that American officials “sexed up” al-Janabi’s drawings of the imaginary mobile biological weapons labs.

“I brought the White House team in to do the graphics,” Wilkerson said, adding, “intelligence was being worked to fit around the policy.”“I don’t see any way on this earth that Secretary Powell doesn’t feel almost a rage about Curveball and the way he was used in regards to that intelligence,” Wilkerson said.

The series also exposes the true reason behind the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s (FBI’s) move to arrest Anna Chapman, an alleged Russian spy, in 2010.

The FBI’s head of counterintelligence, Frank Figliuzzi, reveals that Chapman got “closer and closer to higher and higher ranking leadership… she got close enough to disturb us.”

There appears to be some confusion about whether Chapman ever actually seduced a member of the cabinet.

The FBI says such a thing never happened, while the British Independent reports, “Top officials feared the glamorous Russian agent wanted to seduce one of US President Barack Obama’s inner circle.”

The two part series also includes interviews with several British spies, which is the first time that active intelligence officers have been interviewed on television, even though their identities are concealed.

Personally, I find it quite sad that someone would be so nonchalant in recounting how they deceived the world and justified an invasion which resulted in the suffering of so many Iraqis.

Article

[Judee]

Same crap going on with Iran IMO.