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Thread: Time Travellers Could be Here in Weeks - Are we Playing with Fire?

  1. #1
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    Time Travellers Could be Here in Weeks - Are we Playing with Fire?

    I hope those playing with this know what they're doing and have considered all the possible ramifications!!!

    Time travellers from the future 'could be here in weeks'

    2008 02 08
    By Roger Highfield | telegraph.co.uk


    The first time travellers from the future could materialise on Earth within a few weeks.

    Physicists around the world are excitedly awaiting the start up of the £4.65 billion Large Hadron Collider, LHC - the most powerful atom-smasher ever built - which is supposed to shed new light on the particles and forces at work in the cosmos and reproduce conditions that date to near the Big Bang of creation.

    Prof Irina Aref'eva and Dr Igor Volovich, mathematical physicists at the Steklov Mathematical Institute in Moscow believe that the vast experiment at CERN, the European particle physics centre near Geneva in Switzerland, may turn out to be the world's first time machine, reports New Scientist.

    The debut in early summer could provide a landmark because travelling into the past is only possible - if it is possible at all - as far back as the point of creation of the first time machine.

    That means 2008 could become "Year Zero" for temporal travel, they argue.

    Time travel was born when Albert Einstein's colleague, Kurt Gödel, used Einstein's theory of relativity to show that travel into the past was possible.

    Ever since he unveiled this idea in 1949, eminent physicists have argued against time travel because it undermines ideas of cause and effect to create paradoxes: a time traveller could go back to kill his grandfather so that he is never born in the first place.

    But, sixty years later, there is still no fundamental reason why time travellers cannot put historians out of business.

    But the Russians argue that when the energies of the LHC are concentrated into a subatomic particle - a trillionth the size of a mosquito - they can do strange things to the fabric of the universe, which is a blend of space and time that scientists called spacetime.

    While Earth's gravity produces gentle distortions in spacetime the LHC energy can distort time so much that it loops back on itself. These loops are known to physicists as "closed timelike curves" and they ought, at least in theory, to allow us to revisit some past moment.

    The scheme chimes with one laid out in 1988, when Prof Kip Thorne and colleagues at the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, showed that wormholes, or tunnels through spacetime, would allow time travel, a scheme popularised by Carl Sagan in his novel - made into a film - Contact.

    Prof Aref'eva and Dr Volovich believe the LHC could create wormholes and so allow a form of time travel. "We realised that closed timelike curves and wormholes could also be a result of collisions of particles," Prof Aref'eva says.

    There are still plenty of obstacles for the likes of Dr Who, however. Not least of them is the fact that these are mini wormholes, so only subatomic particles are small enough to travel through them.

    They tell The Daily Telegraph that whether subatomic time travel in the LHC would open the doors for human scale time travellers "is a deep and interesting question" but stress that "these problems, and many others as well, require further investigations."

    Probably the best we can hope for is that the LHC may show a signature of the wormholes' existence, Dr Volovich says. If some of the energy from collisions in the LHC goes missing, it could be because the collisions created particles that have travelled into a wormhole and through time.

    One sticking point until now for wormhole concepts is finding an exotic kind of material capable of keeping the maw of the wormhole open for time travel.

    Dark energy - a mysterious antigravity force that is thought to pervade the universe - could, they say, be just what is needed to keep the entrance to a wormhole open, at least according to one family of ideas about its nature, where it is called phantom energy.

    If a blend of colliding particles and phantom energy does create a wormhole in Geneva this year, an advanced civilisation could find it in their history books, pinpoint the moment, and take advantage of their technology to pay us a visit.

    "The observational evidence still allows for phantom energy," says Robert Caldwell, a physicist at Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire. "As for Aref'eva and Volovich's speculation that the LHC will produce the stuff of time machines - ugh!"

    A leading scientist who believes that time travel may be possible, Prof David Deutsch of Oxford University, comments: "It's speculative in the extreme, but not cranky. For various reasons I don't think the mechanism they propose would work (i.e. provide a pathway for messages from the future) even if their speculations are true."

    Dr Brian Cox of the University of Manchester adds: "The energies of billions of cosmic rays that have been hitting the Earth's atmosphere for five billion years far exceed those we will create at the LHC, so by this logic time travellers should be here already. If these wormholes appear I will personally eat the hat I was given for my first birthday before I received it."

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  2. #2
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    Time travelers, hum? I cannot dispute the word of so many learned scientists!

    But I guess these travel-nauts could have shown up during the past few thousand years or so as well as any day now! Maybe they helped to build the pyramids? Any any rate, I just can't worry about it. I have a lot of what are more pressing issues than this stuff.

    Wasn't "Back to the Future" (and its sequels) a fun movie? Some of it was filmed in the Puente Hills Mall less than 5 min. from my house in California. Oh, for one of those old DeLoreans!


    "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." ~ Ronald Reagan

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    travelling into the past is only possible
    B.S. What dopey scientists humans have on Earth. The fact that I am here today, which was yesterdays tomorrow, proves we can and do travel into the future too. Silly Earth scientists, they don't think these things all the way through, do they. Say, what if they break a prime directive rule and crack open a temporal causality loop? That experiment does look loopy. Maybe someone should suggest they spend a little more time thinking their act of defiance over before committing you all to a boring déjà vu-ish kind of eternal existence within your own self made helltrap reality bubble, ha . . . . err ah wait, ha, never mind, go for it earthlings, humons, check it out monkeys and flip the switch and see what happens to yous all. Do it! Do it! Do it!

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    I time travel when I open a Hemingway book, or Mark Twain, etc

    I like how they stae it as fact that you could not come back be4 first time machine is built... oh, we understand that as scientific fact now? Last I checked that was philosophy, not scientific learning.
    proj·ect
    1. something that is contemplated, devised, or planned; plan; scheme.
    2. a large or major undertaking, especially one involving considerable money, personnel, and equipment.
    3. a specific task of investigation, especially in scholarship.
    4. to propose, contemplate, or plan.
    5. to throw, cast, or impel forward or onward.
    6. to set forth or calculate (some future thing).
    7. to extend or protrude beyond something else.
    8. to use one's voice forcefully enough to be heard at a distance, as in a theater.
    9. to produce a clear impression of one's thoughts, personality, role, etc.

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    I time travel when I open a Hemingway book, or Mark Twain, etc
    Oh, gosh, Project. Me too!

    All of that cyber imaginative stuff is beyond me too! Glad we see eye to eye on all of that baloney sauce! Oh woe. I try, though, I do try!


    "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." ~ Ronald Reagan

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    Wish I could time travel back to before a crashed my car yesterday and turned a different direction when I left home. I wonder, Einstein claimed that time slowed down as we reached the speed of light. I wonder if time runs backwards once you pass it. Maybe that's why space travelers travel through worm holes for inner steller space travel. If not they'd all be babies by the time they got anywhere.
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    "When liberty is taken away by force, it can be restored by force. When it is relinquished voluntarily by default, it can never be recovered."
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackeyes View Post
    Wish I could time travel back to before a crashed my car yesterday and turned a different direction when I left home. I wonder, Einstein claimed that time slowed down as we reached the speed of light. I wonder if time runs backwards once you pass it. Maybe that's why space travelers travel through worm holes for inner steller space travel. If not they'd all be babies by the time they got anywhere.
    Ah, damnit, BE. I'm sorry for your misfortune, but you're a big guy! You can handle it! I've spent a lot of years just sucking up adversity, car wrecks, etc. etc., all by my little feminine self. You can do it too! Just hang in there, buddy!


    "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." ~ Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dera View Post
    Ah, damnit, BE. I'm sorry for your misfortune, but you're a big guy! You can handle it! I've spent a lot of years just sucking up adversity, car wrecks, etc. etc., all by my little feminine self. You can do it too! Just hang in there, buddy!
    I'm not looking for a pat on the head even though it feels good on my yellow bald skull. Just sharing my feelings. I'm starting to feel the effects of age and the lack of opportunities normally given to youth. Definitely feeling the effects of mid-life.
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    "When liberty is taken away by force, it can be restored by force. When it is relinquished voluntarily by default, it can never be recovered."
    (Dorothy Thompson)

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackeyes View Post
    I'm not looking for a pat on the head even though it feels good on my yellow bald skull. Just sharing my feelings. I'm starting to feel the effects of age and the lack of opportunities normally given to youth. Definitely feeling the effects of mid-life.
    Well, my friend, you are still a kid as I see it. You are as a son to me. I'm up there close to your mom's age. As my dad once said to me, "If you are looking for sympathy, it is in the dictionary under "S". Get a grip. You have only you to fall back on and it is a cold cruel world. Life never promised you a rose garden; think for yourself, act for yourself, be proud of yourself. You are especially bright. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Don't wimp out, OK? I believe in you.


    "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." ~ Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dera View Post
    Well, my friend, you are still a kid as I see it. You are as a son to me. I'm up there close to your mom's age. As my dad once said to me, "If you are looking for sympathy, it is in the dictionary under "S". Get a grip. You have only you to fall back on and it is a cold cruel world. Life never promised you a rose garden; think for yourself, act for yourself, be proud of yourself. You are especially bright. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Don't wimp out, OK? I believe in you.
    Thanks mom. Just don't take away my monthly massages(she is so good)and my hair cut and shaves. There is no feeling like being shaved with hot towels and a straight razor at a barber shop. Either of those really help relieve the tension.

    Added note: In Manitoba massage therapy is only 15 dollars for a one hour session. Manitoba health covers the rest. Limited to 12 visits a year and that's fine with me.
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    "When liberty is taken away by force, it can be restored by force. When it is relinquished voluntarily by default, it can never be recovered."
    (Dorothy Thompson)

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    There is no feeling like being shaved with hot towels and a straight razor at a barber shop. Either of those really help relieve the tension.
    Funny you are talking about this BE. On the Adam Carolla show, they were talking about this and we were all thinking, 'Man, I have to get an old-fashioned shave.' I HAVE to find out where I can do this around here.

    Well, I envy you. That would be so nice.

    Back to time travel.....that Titor guy said there is no problem going into the past because you actually end up in a slightly different universe. It looks the same, but it is different. Therefore, there is nothing you can do there that will affect THIS world here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackeyes View Post
    Wish I could time travel back to before a crashed my car yesterday and turned a different direction when I left home.
    Yeah, but think of where that alternate timeline would have taken you instead? You certainly wouldn't be here with the rest of us in the reality where that did happen if you were elsewhere where it didn't . . . and we would have been missing and talking about you right now. . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Divinorumus View Post
    Yeah, but think of where that alternate timeline would have taken you instead? You certainly wouldn't be here with the rest of us in the reality where that did happen if you were elsewhere where it didn't . . . and we would have been missing and talking about you right now. . . . .
    ...good point Div, yet I think this thread has digressed.

    The reason I posted it in the first place was to consider the ramifications beyond the time travel piece....the time travel being an output or result...


    Isn't anyone concerned about that?

    Do unto Others as you would have them do unto you



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